Hi Bob, You weren't here when Ravi was putting on quite a show upon his arrival on FFL. It was done brilliantly, with real links to mental hospitals, doctors and psychiatrists. I was not taken in, but many others were, and it was truly an alarming experience for them. After all, no one knew Ravi at that point. So you may want to consider that, before calling people hypocrites.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price <bobpriced@...> wrote: > > I read all these posts, when they were posted. Unless you're > > doing a Curtis; you seem to have missed my point. I do not agree with yours or > Alex's interpretation of your exchanges with Ravi.  I don't believe the two > of you are anywhere near as innocent > as you'd like the other posters to believe. Alex is passive aggressive, read > his "projections" response to me last night. You, on the other hand, are > being > hypocritical; I have no reason to think it's (like Curtis), a permanent > affliction, > or, (like Bubbles), that you're a low functioning sociopath, but your > explanations are BS (hope that doesn't offend). There are numerous examples of > Ravi's points that were completely ignored in the rush to *cyber* lynch him, > I've > already mentioned the obvious metaphors he was using; everyone ignored his > explanation that one might be forgiven for thinking someone who uses a handle > like yours might not be offended by some colorful language; chivalry my ass, > you're all hypocrites. But like Watergate, or the sudden stop---to the fall, > the > cover-up was worse than the break in. I think the posts after Ravi, and Judy, > posted out stink to high heaven of the basest type of mob thinking, and all of > you (not you Bubbles we understand your challenges) should be ashamed of > yourselves. *Attempting* to get even with someone by discussing their past and > present mental health is nasty, but pretending you're doing it out of some > type of concern for a fellow human being, is the worst type of hypocrisy. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy#Jung_on_the_General_Hypocrisy_of_Man > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: raunchydog <raunchydog@...> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 5:34:40 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Ravi > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price <bobpriced@> wrote: > > > > RD, > > > > Since the *attempted* cyber lynching appears to be all but over, except for > > the clean up, I have a couple of questions for you below; > > > > ________________________________ > > From: raunchydog <raunchydog@> > > > > Hi Robin,à> > > > > > >>>>RD: I really don't know Ravi very well at all. I haven't read his posts > > >>>>with much interest except to notice that he has had some enjoyable back > > >>>>and forth banter with Denise/Emily and Bob Price. My initial experience > > >>>>of Ravi was about a year ago when he got into such a depressive state > > >>>>that we had extensive discussions about his mental health and concern > > >>>>that he might commit suicide. Since then I see that he has come back > > >>>>from the brink but rightly or wrongly, I still see him as an unstable > > >>>>individual with the potential to go off the rails again. Given his > > >>>>history, I think Alex's explanation for what might have happened with > > >>>>Ravi in the past seems to ring true. > > > > > > ***BP: Do I understand correctly that the reason you *attempted* to provoke > > Ravi was your concern for his mental stability? > > > > Incorrect. I've already explained the motivation for my actions and the > sequence of events here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/297639 > > Out of respect for your friendship with Ravi, I'll answer you question. Just > for the record, despite the row I've had with Ravi, I don't dislike him. > Since I'm going into far more detail explaining myself than I expected, I > hope you will at least follow the threads I have outlined before judging me. > > In a nutshell: Ravi gay baited Alex. I gay baited Ravi. Ravi ranted about > blowjobs. I dropped it here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/297404 > > I thought Ravi dropped it here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/297409 > > Then I commented on Vaj's link here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/297443 > > Ravi took offense and for no apparent reason, he launched into another > abusive rant about blowjobs here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/297571 > > At that point Rick stepped in and I stepped back. I did not respond to Ravi's > rant. In fact I'm on record saying Ravi should not be censored here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/297765 > > I don't know anything about Ravi's mental health other than he is no longer > talking about suicide. For all the reasons I explained, the notion that I > provoked Ravi because I was concerned for his mental stability seems to imply > cruel intent on my part and is simply not true. > > > > Do I also understand correctly that the *attempted* lynching of Raja Ravi > Yogi, by pretty much all of FFL (excluding Judy, Edg and Oboe) was also out > of concern for his mental health; > > > > I doubt it, but you'll have to ask them. > > > > and we should ignore the fact that the *attempted* lynching was lead by those > paragons of emotional maturity Curtis and Bubbles? > > > > Curtis can speak for himself. I note that Judy has a serious beef with him > for his hypocrisy concerning Barry and Vaj then choosing to pile on Ravi. I > like Curtis, but I tend to agree with her about his hypocrisy in general on > the Barry/Vaj front, but that's another story. > > Who's Bubbles? By the way "lynching" is a bit of a loaded word for historical > reasons and unfairly prejudices this discussion. > > > > In addition, the stated fact: "I really don't know Ravi very well at all." is > no barrier to your meditation or an accurate diagnosis of his mental state, > and further, being the trained mental health professionals that you and the > Alex must so obviously be, the two of you had no doubt that provoking him was > the high road to his recovery? I want to thank you for clearing that up; I'm > a bit slow; I had thought it was that the two of you were being passive > aggressive and working on some issues, and Ravi, as always, was more than > >  happy to help you out.à> > > > I get it that you want to defend Ravi. But sarcasm doesn't further, > discussion. It only shows you're angry with me and would rather hurt me than > give me a fair hearing. I don't know Ravi. I only know that we were concerned > for his life about a year ago. I don't know his mental state now, but I can > assure you, it had nothing to do with how I choose to interact with him. I'm > happy he is no longer suicidal. I don't know if that was a one time event in > his life or if it can happen again. Nobody knows. > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgKXK9giPYQ&feature=related > > > > > > >>>>Alex: "I can see why many traditions of awakening get the > > >>>>samskara/vasana inner work out of the way before awakening, because > > >>>>once sole identity with the I/me story is broken, it is tempting to > > >>>>disregard the story as unimportant and let it act out messily. Also, > > >>>>for people with serious mental health issues, nondual awakening can > > >>>>make matters worse." > > > > > > ***BP: I'm sure I'm wrong about this; on the off chance Raja Ravi Yogi was > > using closet and Mother Teresa as a metaphors for ignorance and hypocrisy > > respectively, would it be fair to interpret yours and Alex's posts as > > *attempts*, to provoke Ravi; and having the heart of a lion, in a herd of > > zebras, he accommodated you? àà> > > > Yes, wrong, but I gotta hand to you, Bob. You're a damn good spin doctor. > This quote from Alex was way after the fact. By that time, Ravi had already > had two rants about blowjobs so it had nothing to do with provoking him to > make those posts. IMO it's was Alex's attempt to make hindsight sense of > Ravi's abusive behavior. I don't know if it exactly fits Ravi, but I wouldn't > say it's not possible. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/297682 > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLFi9Xd7yys > > > > > > >>>>RDOG: As long as Ravi isn't threatening to do himself in, I don't make > > >>>>any claims to know the nature of his present mental stability. I'm just > > >>>>circumspect about it. > > > > > > ***BP: Since most of us didn't know Raja Ravi Yogi was attempting to off > > himself (including Ravi) the fact that you and the Alex have his back, will > > make all of us rest much easier. > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l81W-jcOuj0 > > > > I'm fairly certain it was Ravi who had an emotional meltdown. If it was > someone else, I'm truly sorry if I am mistaken. As I recall Ravi's meltdown > was soon after Rick interviewed him for BATGAP. If anyone can find a timeline > for this, I'd like to see it. Given Ravi's penchant for playing tricks, > perhaps he was perfectly fine all along and he was just jerking our chain. If > that's the case, he has officially disowned any responsibility for having > taken advantage of our natural human response to save his life and has no > appreciation for our compassion and willingness to help him in anyway we > could. > > > > > >>>RDOG: Ravi claims he is enlightened. I don't know what that means to him > > >>>or to anyone else. We all have a POV about it. Maybe I'm misjudging him, > > >>>or just plain don't understand him but I get the feeling that he thinks > > >>>his enlightenment gives him a pass to be Mr. Natural of inhibitions. I > > >>>don't know if anyone's perception of him as enlightened has any bearing > > >>>on how they choose to interact with him. Regardless, IMO it shouldn't be > > >>>an excuse to treat him with deference or give him a pass if he chooses > > >>>to be an asshole. > > > > > > ***BP: This one caught my attention as it seems to be going viral (think > > recent posts from Rick, Curtis and Bubbles), is there any training needed > > to be able to measure another persons state of consciousness, or > > motivation, for that matter? If so, I'm thinking we need an inspector > > certification to avoid people running around making claims that cannot be > > substantiated (you know, things like: I was just kidding; he over reacted, > > because my feelings are hurt---that sort of thing); I'm thinking ISO 666 > > would be catchy, since most of 9000 is gone. We could take a vote on this, > > much like the recent *attempted* lynching (sorry, I meant vote) on Raja > > Ravi Yogi's behavior. My vote would be that we get Rick certified; I think > > that would really up the overall feel and exclusivity of the place, cause > > frankly, since Judy and Ravi posted out, the place is feeling a bit paltry. > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9000 > > > > > > > > > > >>>>RDOG: I don't doubt the rawness of emotion he felt when he went off on > > >>>>his blow job rant. He intended to offend me. Yes, I felt offended, not > > >>>>for his personal attack on me but for the stench it created in the air > > >>>>on FFLife. Obviously, I provoked that in him by sending him some fairly > > >>>>stinky barbs myself. Just to be clear, I don't take his reaction to me > > >>>>as a lesson that I should somehow appreciate his rancor as an > > >>>>opportunity to reflect upon any darkness residing in the deepest part > > >>>>of my being. Perhaps this is the premise of those who see him as a > > >>>>Guru. I do not.à> > > > > > ***BP: I'm sure I speak for many in thanking you for your concern for the > > sensibilities of FFL, I was particularly concerned about Steve's wife---I > > understood from his post that he was concerned that if his wife read ones > > of Raja Ravi Yogi's posts she might have some kind of reaction, although I > > don't think Ravi is the type of enlightened man that runs off with another > > mans wife, particularly a friends---like he considers Steve. I did have one > > question though; are you more concerned for my sensibilities or Raja Ravi > > Yogi's mental stability? > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAqmzmirixg&feature=related > > > > Ravi's mental state is his own business. It is not any concern of mine unless > he threatens to kill himself, in which case I would feel compelled to do > whatever I could to protect his life. But now, in light of his denial that he > was suicidal, I would have to wonder if he was just jerking my chain. IMO a > cruel ploy, by anyone's standards. > > > > > >>>>RDOG: I'll own my part in provoking him. I doubt that he owns his > > >>>>provocative behavior when he gay-baited Alex or dismissed me as a > > >>>>woman. In fact it was his stated intention to be provocative. This > > >>>>whole brouhaha between Ravi and me has turned out to be quite > > >>>>embarrassing in that I don't enjoy bringing attention to myself. > > > > > > >>>RDOG: I like flying under the radar, posting mostly political stuff so > > >>>that I can vent my frustrations about the sorry state of the state. I > > >>>think it's important to be informed about current events. I try to make > > >>>sense of complicated issues admittedly from a rock solid liberal POV and > > >>>that may cause me to tilt at a few windmills, but so be it, at least I > > >>>care about what happens to my country.à> > > > > > ***BP: As someone who may be the farthest to the left FFL has to offer, I'm > > guessing Ravi is a > > dyed in the wool progressive; that said, I believe, like me, he has > > other outlets for his politics, and, he finds, pointing out what pompous > > asses and hypocrites, most of us are, much more rewarding (I could be > > talking my own book here). IMHO, besides any quesion of Ravi's mental > > health, the biggest canards in the *attempted* lynching of Raja Ravi Yogi > > are the nonsense > > that Ravi is homophobic or sexist. > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF0fIO4tk-g > > > > IMO Ravi gay-baited Alex. Your opinion of what constitutes sexism will > obviously differ from mine. > > > > > >>>RDOG: I don't know if anything I've said answers your doubts about > > >>>dealing with Ravi effectively or if I've adequately resolved any > > >>>remaining personal issues with him to your satisfaction, but it's the > > >>>best that I've got for now. > > > > >>>RDOG:Just for the record, I don't believe in censorship. It's up to Rick > > >>>if he wants to boot someone off. The minimal standard on FFLife is that > > >>>we don't post anything that would cause Yahoo to give us an XXX rating. > > >>>In Ravi's case, he stepped over the line using abusive, pornographic > > >>>language and offended the sensibilities of what a few posters feel is in > > >>>good taste, but IMO Ravi's tirade didn't rise to a level that calls for > > >>>censorship. Maybe there's an element of chivalry of from the guys (deep > > >>>bow), but I think it's more likely they reacted to what they personally > > >>>considered offensive. Vaj and Barry regularly stink up the place and we > > >>>put up with it. So there's a place in the firmament of stinkers on > > >>>FFLife for Ravi as well as myself. I just hope to be a better person > > >>>from the experience and consider it a lesson learned for moving on. > > > > > > > > ***BP: Again, please forgive the few of us that think, its end to end > > hypocrisy, when Ravi escalates, when provoked, and FFL's lord and master > > makes rules *on the fly* for the obvious purpose of making Ravi an example > > when he could just as easily emailed him directly (one assumes, like the > > rest of us Rick has Ravi's email), and then the class president reappears > > and calls for a gang bang. I'm sure, its just me, but calling what Vaj and > > Bubbles do "regularly stinking up the place" seems a touch understated, as > > does trying to call the *attempted* lynching a "double standard".àIts a > > good thing we have no racists on FFL or I could go on forever. In closing, > > I must qualify my use of the word lynching; I have no doubt once Raja Ravi > > Yogi returns we will know that the lynching was *attempted* > > ---at best (so buckle up).à> > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZCS5I80X-8&feature=related > > > > > >  Ã Ã > > Oh please, are you playing the race card or saying that Ravi thinks this is > about race? You're way off base on that one. After I commented on Vaj's link > and thought the dust had settled, without *any* provocation, IMO Ravi lynched > himself. If he hadn't made that last blowjob post and Jim hadn't asked, "WTF > was that about?" I wouldn't have listed all the links making my case and no > one would have noticed that Ravi had been an abusive asshole from the git go. > > >   >
