--- In [email protected], "futur.musik" <futur.musik@...> wrote: > > Hi Susan, One thing I like to watch on FFL is context. I don't know if you > remember even a year ago or less, when one or two of the folks here would > write daily screeds against whole groups of people, a low level toxicity on a > daily basis - more politically correct certainly, but not dissimilar to > having a racist continually rant against black people. > > It became the norm. Most of us just laughed it off. Sometimes the attacks got > very nasty, and were always distorted, but almost no one noticed. This became > daily life on FFL. We were used to it. > > Then several months ago, a new group of posters showed up and, lo and behold, > they are fiercely challenging what has become the status quo here. Just by > showing up they have created an environment closer to what was intended when > FFL started; the will to discover, vs. believe. > > I for one find it refreshing that it is once again possible to talk about > anything at all on here, without having long winded tracts of BS stinking up > the place on a daily basis. I don't agree with everything that is said here, > but at least now there is variety and vitality. > > As for anything said about Curtis, he isn't shy about his opinions and can > take care of himself I am sure. Please correct me on that if I am wrong > Curtis, though I will cringe if you do...
Cringe not. Curtis has an intellect that can write up a storm and defend himself. He already has. I could not match him, or Judy or many others here. But specific to this last exchange, you all know that Ravi knows nothing of events that occurred when most of us were actually teaching TM and disciples of Maharishi, way back in the 70's and early 80's. That is when Curtis was around, and that is when I was around. So why would any of you fans of Ravi buy into that wild lie about why Curtis left the movement and promote it and defend Ravi? I don't get it. I know that you feel strongly about not liking Barry's "rants" and classifying you all as TB's etc, I get that. That has been going on for years and is really between Judy and Barry, with a few others included. I usually ignore a lot from them both. Nevertheless, I like many of Barry's ideas and so do others, including Curtis. But does that justify this turning on Curtis or anyone else when you know it is an out and out lie? It does not. And I disagree with you - I see no improvement in FFL lately. None at all. I see a bunch of people, you included, that seemed once to have some heart and some sense even if I did not always agree with you, and even if I often enjoy Barry and Curtis. I see you all getting swept up in Ravi's whirlwind, or Robin's, using it to pull yourselves into a tighter group and giving you something to agree about, to rally around. As I said a few days ago, it feels like a feeding frenzy, a pack of wild dogs or pirana. And someone is getting hurt here. > > --- In [email protected], "Susan" <wayback71@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Wow, nothing like hearing an excellent reputation that my ass > > > > > now has to try to live up to! Thanks Marek! > > > > > > > > > > "Untethered" is such an excellent word. I think the egging on > > > > > has to do with the fact that some of the new posters figured > > > > > out the social system. If you throw mud at Barry and Vaj and > > > > > myself, certain people will have your back. > > > > > > > > Says Curtis, parroting one of Barry's more ridiculous > > > > excuses, a variant of the one he borrowed yesterday. > > > > > > Wow, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with that reason. Then > > > you genuinely support Ravi lying about why I left the movement on a > > > public forum, his constant use of a slur against people with mental > > > disabilities, and and trollish offensive language toward me. > > > > Hey Judy, you know that I like reading you and respect your honesty and > > common sense. I can't figure out what has been going on with you and your > > willingness to overlook what just happened with Ravi, and what has been > > happening with him. You may dislike Curtis, but come on...... Ravi is > > crossing so many lines here. The only thing I can think of is that you got > > sucked in to a battle you would normally see through. You can like Ravi > > all you want, and still call him on things like using "retard," gratuitous > > insults, and spreading rumors about Curtis. Frankly, you and the other > > fans of Ravi are all feeding into his drama - and I don't see that as a > > kindness to him. And more important, of course, it is really lying about > > someone else's reputation, something I know you would not stand for if > > Curtis were not the victim.. > > > > > > Your double standards goes so much deeper than I imagined. > > > > > > > > > > > It was a simple > > > > > social formula that has shielded some posters from a more > > > > > unanimous group, WTF? In this particular context I think > > > > > there is a callus > > > > > > > > (callous, adj.; callus, noun) (This correction is provided > > > > so Curtis can make a show of thanking me for it while > > > > pointedly ignoring the rest of what I said.) > > > > > > As always I appreciate these corrections that my robots failed me on. > > > The last time it was the only thing worth commenting on in your post and > > > it caused such a fuss. The exact one I was trying to avoid by not > > > responding to your taunts in that post. > > > > > > And unlike Ravi (that is a long A right?) I have a serious commitment to > > > the integrity of my point of view on the movement following my > > > participation in it. Unlike you ,whose strongest connection with the > > > movement is your years of Internet arguments about it, I have a deep > > > history working in the organization and those are the experiences I bring > > > to bear as my creditability when I raise my new POV. So although anyone > > > here may know from where Ravi is pulling this lie (hint, lack of sun) I > > > don't want to hear this on the next MUM student Youtube from Bobby Roth. > > > > > > So it matters, and you know it matters to me, but you have chosen your > > > battles. OK, that's how it rolls here. > > > > > > But please don't expect me to view your support for his behavior to be > > > anything less than direct hypocrisy in the exact area you and others give > > > me the most shit about. So we can now put to rest any version of your > > > routine about me calling Barry out, right? You are a fraud and a poseur > > > of virtue, contrived by malevolent convenience. > > > > > > > > > > > > disregard for the welfare of this person being played as a > > > > > pawn. There is something unseemly going on in this dynamic, > > > > > and I appreciate your speaking up. > > > > > > > > "Do you really not understand that Ravi has actual problems > > > > that shouldn't be speculated about on the Internet like he > > > > is our private intellectual toy?"--Curtis to Robin, awhile > > > > back > > > > > > I haven't even begun to speculate on Ravi's situation in detail Judy, > > > I've been pulling all my punches as you well know. But the situation I > > > am dealing with is of such an obvious nature, nothing needs to be said > > > between me and anyone without your personal agenda. > > > > > > But I have no reason to pull my punches with you so here goes. > > > > > > Ravi's lie about why I left the movement was reframed as a "tweek" by you > > > because you wouldn't mind if such an outspoken critic of all things > > > Maharishi was plagued by an internet rumor as having been expelled > > > against his will for immoral conduct. You let it slide in a > > > demonstration of Carl Rovian tactics against people you disagree with. > > > > > > So now we both have felt these shoes on both feet haven't we Judy. > > > Perhaps now you can understand what I mean when I say I pick my battles > > > here. And you can drop the pretense that you are acting differently > > > here, running around correcting people for what are obvious, hurtful lies > > > in the context of obnoxious mean-spirited trolling. > > > > > > I don't care if you correct his behavior or not, or why you don't. I > > > don't need you to help him make a fool of himself here. But I would > > > appreciate your understanding where I am coming from a little better and > > > not giving me shit for doing exactly what you are doing here, letting > > > people fight their own battles, and dropping in when you feel like > > > something interests you or you want to give someone a "tweek". > > > > > > Just stop being such a F'ing hypocrite about it. > > > > > > Si capisce? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been fascinated by how far people can stretch their oft quoted > > > > > principles to encourage the enemy of their enemy. It is revealing > > > > > many trollish agendas here. But with kind words from some posters > > > > > here, like yourself, I feel as if there is another option for those > > > > > who value it. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks man. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "marekreavis" <reavismarek@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not my habit, at least for the last year or so, to interject > > > > > > my opinion into an ongoing thread, but following FFL for the last > > > > > > month or two, it's amazed me to observe the willingness of some > > > > > > folks here to glorify and encourage what, in my opinion and > > > > > > experience, appears to be some very untethered behavior by some of > > > > > > the more recent and prolific posters. > > > > > > > > > > > > And even more inexplicably, to gang up on Curtis, for attempting, > > > > > > in a straightforward yet still compassionate way, to engage in a > > > > > > reasonable exchange with, and criticism of, those individuals. > > > > > > > > > > > > For what it's worth, in my estimation Curtis is a true, shining > > > > > > example of what I'd always hoped the TM movement to produce. > > > > > > There's certainly no one on this board from whom I've learned more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Curtis certainly doesn't need any endorsement from me, but I felt > > > > > > compelled to write, regardless. > > > > > > > > > >
