--- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote: > > Since Vaj is being a pretty good sport about this I will speak > up for him and say that he wouldn't be out of line in doing a > Snoopy's I-told-you-so dance on this one.
Nice start, Curtis. Take the initial stance that Robin is down, then ostentatiously begin hitting him. > What Ann may not be aware of about the dynamics of the place > is that the Robin hitting people issue wasn't really about > Robin hitting people. It was being used as a tool by some > here to impeach Vaj's credibility. That's a flat-out lie, unless by "some people" you mean Robin himself. > And it was Robin who, through a convoluted process of reasoning > I will get to below, was one of the biggest enthusiasts of > this POV, knowing all the while that he was bullshitting us > all. Says Curtis, squashing a complicated, multicolored, multi- dimensional, nuanced situation into a black-and-white pancake. > Here are a few problems I see in this whole deal. Vaj's > perspective on this has been misrepresented in Robin's mea > culpa to allow for the equivocation room that I suspect is > not really flying even for those who would rather die than > admit that Vaj has been vindicated here. Sounds great in the abstract, Curtis, but you'd have a really hard time translating it into the concrete, complete with quotes. And clearly you do not want to mention Robin's reasons for equivocating. > Since I've endured pages of Robin's accusations that I am > being subtly deceptive on this board I'm gunna spell this > out as I see it. Translation: I'm gunna get back at that bastard if it's the last thing I do. > Vaj said there was a video of Robin hitting someone. > Robin said this video was impossible Here's what Vaj said: "Of course once everyone saw the videos of 'the enlightened man' beating one of his students, on official video, on the stage - that was the last straw." Robin has denied and still denies this. Vaj has now had to walk that back: It wasn't "beating," there was only one alleged tape, and it may not have been "on the stage" after all. This is what Vaj's story has devolved into: ------- There were several untrue rumors flitting around about Robin, most facilitated by TM TB's: -he was dead -he committed suicide -he went "insane" -his schtick ended when he began beating students on stage. The only one that has some semblance of truth is the latter and then only vaguely. All the people I knew involved in WTS stopped when a VHS of Robin thumping his fists (not beating, not punching) on a student circulated. It was the last straw for some "hangers-on". ------- "Only vaguely." The "untrue story," according to Vaj: "-his schtick ended when he began beating students on stage." Yet above I quoted Vaj as saying: "Of course once everyone saw the videos of 'the enlightened man' beating one of his students, on official video, on the stage - that was the last straw." You can't possibly be so blind, Curtis, as not to see where the bullshittery has been going on here. > Robin said this video was impossible and watched as others > piled on Vaj to use this as an example of a lie he had been > caught in. Again, this is flat-out false. Robin conducted this particular battle with Vaj almost entirely on his own. Here's me: "Who the hell knows what it's all about? Let Vaj and Robin hash it out. I ain't gonna get in the middle of it." That was the general feeling. Maybe a potshot here and there--whynotnow made one--but "others piled on" just isn't true. > Robin encouraged this POV. > > Someone showed up who could corroborate the story. Hardly a "corroboration" of the story as Vaj has told it. But then he's told it in so many different versions and omitted so many significant details that it would be pretty hard to "corroborate" it--or disconfirm it, for that matter. Here's the first appearance I can find of Vaj's story, from 2007, four years before Robin joined us: "It seemed controversial throughout to me, but the shit hit the proverbial fan when RWC, rather than confronting people on stage 'at the mic' to disengage demons, started physically hitting his students. The already slippery slope became too much to stand. The people I know involved dropped him like a hotcake." Notice the subtle elision: Vaj *appears* to be saying Robin hit his students on stage during the seminars. But in fact he carefully refrained from saying where this allegedly took place. He became bolder later on. > Before she could, Robin came clean. But still is attempting > to evade an owed apology to Vaj who he let hang out to dry, > knowing full well there was bullshittery in play. How could he have let Vaj "hang out to dry"? It's always been Robin's word against Vaj's until Ann came along. Robin, of course, thinks there's been bullshittery in play on Vaj's part all along. IMHO, a far worse type of bullshittery because it was designed to do Robin harm. > And I get it that the fans of the careful parsing will delight > in the distinction between when the hitting took place And where, and in what context. and that > perhaps Robin was technically not boldfaced lying in a > Clintonesque "I never had sex with that woman" but was at the > very least involved in the statements that followed that Monica > was deranged. It was "Clintonesque" in a general sense, but the distinction Robin made, and the basis for it, was a lot more valid than that between "having sex" and "blow job." Guilt by association, anyone? > So why the slick Willy routine Robin? There is plenty of > compassion here for weird shit we all did in our past and > this doesn't sound like such a big deal. Obviously it did and does TO ROBIN. Disingenuous. <snip> > So the last few months of Vaj battles seems kind of > disingenuous. Vaj was shooting, you were dancing, the > music stopped so own it. Let's look at what happened right before the music stopped: ------- Barry: Back in the Bad Old Days, RWC would drag his followers up on stage and yell at them (and possibly even strike them), "pointing out their weaknesses" and telling them exactly what kinds of demons were possessing them. Robin: This is a crude and misinformed and inaccurate description of what went on between 1976 and 1986. I never once struck someone on stage. Vaj: Well, that's not what I saw. I cannot say it is accurate that you were "beating" them, but it would be accurate to say you were pounding them with clenched fists as if in total exasperation and frustration. ------- If Robin was "dancing" here--by not adding, "But I did strike people on four or five occasions in private sessions of my group before the public onstage seminars even began"--so was Vaj, leaving the impression he saw with his own eyes Robin on stage "pounding" his students with clenched fists. > It wasn't such a big deal until you used it as a way to > make Vaj look bad in what I consider to be a disgusting > campaign around here to make it look as if Vaj was never > a TM teacher, which you also piled on for. Your deliberate twisting is what's disgusting. For many here, Vaj's own accounts are what have made him look as if he were never a TM teacher, including to Robin. (And the notion that somehow I managed to hypnotize all those people into believing something for which there was no evidence doesn't hold any more water than it did when Barry originally fielded the concept of Judy the All-Powerful.) "As a way to make Vaj look bad"--wake up, Curtis, Vaj has made himself look bad all on his own, and he *still* looks bad-- worse, in fact. > You did the guy wrong and aren't owning it. Sorry, but you haven't come close to making your case. <snip fatuous advice to Robin> > IMO you are still not coming clean with your fellow humans > Robin. You are trying to have it both ways. None of us is > running the "truth" here,it just isn't one of our options. Sometimes--maybe always--the "truth" is multisided, and one can approach it most closely by acknowledging there's more than one way to have it. But you decline to do this. As much as anyone else here, maybe more, you insist that your standards be the norm. > The battle is over. Everyone should put their maces and > lances and bows and arrows away and go home to our families. Says Curtis, smugly wiping what he hopes is Robin's blood off his assortment of deadly weapons. > I believe for you some of the pieces of that puzzle will be > found in former followers who I suspect will be more than > willing to give you a break, and whose own healing you could > probably facilitate if you were willing to get off the silk > and join their humanness. And there may be a biochemical > reason why you will never escape from what I call the > "prison of specialness", but for your sake I hope there is > and that you find it. Right, the psychiatric diagnosis tactic, just in biochemical form. Excuse me, I have to go throw up now. You've been aggravating in the past, Curtis, goodness knows, but you're reaching new heights: this post was positively nauseating.
