Sorry Curtis, I don't know you well enough to be bitchy to you and I am sorry if I appeared to be, which I was. Things can get so prickly that I get caught up in the fray. I am just going to shut up and listen for a while.
--- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], awoelflebater <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > I have to take something a little personally here Curtis and that is: > > > > Your group was functioning under the conditions of a > > well known phenomenon and their reports are as suspect as those of any eye > > witnesses but multiplied by a thousand... > > > > You're correct about the "was functioning" part. Where you have missed the > > mark is assuming I am still under any spell in my recounting of my > > experiences during seminars. > > I don't know why you assume this but it was not an intended part of my > comments. I was talking about people corroborating it back then, not now. > > Wait, I get it, it is my use of their "reports" which I see could be taken as > you reporting. > > Thanks for clarifying, that was not my intention. I am talking about people > at the time being used as proof that his state was legitimate as the Unity of > Maharishi's system. I wasn't thinking of you. > > > < You don't know me well enough to assume that.> > > Nor did I. > > > > > Now go ahead and let me "have it", I can tell you love this kind of thing.> > > Ouch! I can't see how this characterizes our chatter here Ann. If you are > judging me on how I am relating so some others perhaps you can give me a > break that you may not know me well enough to make too many assumptions yet. > Of course your opinions flattering or otherwise are your own, and this is a > great place to express them. > > But for the record, I have nothing to let you have it for, I am enjoying > having you here. > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > Since Vaj is being a pretty good sport about this I will speak up for him > > > and say that he wouldn't be out of line in doing a Snoopy's I-told-you-so > > > dance on this one. What Ann may not be aware of about the dynamics of > > > the place is that the Robin hitting people issue wasn't really about > > > Robin hitting people. It was being used as a tool by some here to > > > impeach Vaj's credibility. And it was Robin who, through a convoluted > > > process of reasoning I will get to below, was one of the biggest > > > enthusiasts of this POV, knowing all the while that he was bullshitting > > > us all. > > > > > > Here are a few problems I see in this whole deal. Vaj's perspective on > > > this has been misrepresented in Robin's mea culpa to allow for the > > > equivocation room that I suspect is not really flying even for those who > > > would rather die than admit that Vaj has been vindicated here. Since > > > I've endured pages of Robin's accusations that I am being subtly > > > deceptive on this board I'm gunna spell this out as I see it. > > > > > > Vaj said there was a video of Robin hitting someone. > > > > > > Robin said this video was impossible and watched as others piled on Vaj > > > to use this as an example of a lie he had been caught in. > > > > > > Robin encouraged this POV. > > > > > > Someone showed up who could corroborate the story. > > > > > > Before she could, Robin came clean. But still is attempting to evade an > > > owed apology to Vaj who he let hang out to dry, knowing full well there > > > was bullshittery in play. > > > > > > And I get it that the fans of the careful parsing will delight in the > > > distinction between when the hitting took place and that perhaps Robin > > > was technically not boldfaced lying in a Clintonesque "I never had sex > > > with that woman" but was at the very least involved in the statements > > > that followed that Monica was deranged. > > > > > > So why the slick Willy routine Robin? There is plenty of compassion here > > > for weird shit we all did in our past and this doesn't sound like such a > > > big deal. There were a whole bunch of weird psychological "breakthrough" > > > cults that seem to be far worse than what you were running back then. If > > > you weren't banging your disciples ten deep in Elvis' Graceland white > > > panty parties, you come off as better than most people in your position > > > of power over the entranced. > > > > > > So the last few months of Vaj battles seems kind of disingenuous. Vaj > > > was shooting, you were dancing, the music stopped so own it. It wasn't > > > such a big deal until you used it as a way to make Vaj look bad in what I > > > consider to be a disgusting campaign around here to make it look as if > > > Vaj was never a TM teacher, which you also piled on for. > > > > > > You did the guy wrong and aren't owning it. > > > > > > > > > Now I'd like to get to the part that represents my biggest interest in > > > what you wrote. You seem to be playing two sides of a dangerous fence > > > here. On one hand you are calling your visions of demon infested people > > > a hallucination, but you don't seem to be renouncing the POV that there > > > really were Gods who made you enlightened. And I find your holding on to > > > the power of your previous enlightenment itself problematic because you > > > seem to be using the buy-in of your followers as proof that you really > > > were uniquely (compared to the the rest of us) in some powerful > > > enlightened state rather than being one of the millions who was suffering > > > from mental impairment. > > > > > > Here I tread lightly but earnestly. > > > > > > I don't believe this POV helps your recovery and I suspect if you are > > > under the care of any doctor they would agree. People have followed > > > others suffering from deranged mental states into actual "cut off their > > > heads" battle Robin. People bought into Mao. Lots of people. Millions > > > of people. Hundreds of millions of people. > > > > > > The statement that everyone in the room was experiencing the same thing > > > when you did in your "out damn spot" demon dances is a false proof > > > statement with no epistemological merit. Your group was functioning > > > under the conditions of a well known phenomenon and their reports are as > > > suspect as those of any eye witnesses but multiplied by a thousand > > > because you guys shared a common language to discuss experiences that > > > shape reporting to make it all fit better. There were big payoffs for > > > anyone who answered the cop's question: "was he the one who you saw sneak > > > behind the counter at Katz's Deli and remove half of one of their piled > > > mile high pastramis on rye, leading to Hazel Kurmuffle ending up with a > > > normal sized non Katz Deli style sandwich?" with a "yes master". (or > > > whatever it was that designated you as especially in the know compared to > > > them. (Maharishi assumed that title as his name and upped Guru Dev's to > > > His Divinity, named no doubt for that jello, whipped cream, grape and > > > marshmallow dessert popular in the 50's.) Sorry, I am prone to food > > > digressions... > > > > > > You and I have had our friendly connections here. I believe they > > > digressed into a diluted form of the interactions you described in your > > > "I did it but not exactly as he said I did and it was the vedic gods > > > after all" non-admission. From the beginning of our interactions I > > > objected to the sports metaphors for our discussions because it was not a > > > battle for me, it was a discussion of our different POVs and where we > > > draw our lines. But for you it seems to have been a dance of dominance. > > > One that ended our friendly discussions when you seemed compelled to push > > > my face in your perspective of my faults as if you were expelling > > > something impure in me. > > > > > > IMO you are still not coming clean with your fellow humans Robin. You > > > are trying to have it both ways. None of us is running the > > > "truth" here,it just isn't one of our options. The battle is over. > > > Everyone should put their maces and lances and bows and arrows away and > > > go home to our families. I believe for you some of the pieces of that > > > puzzle will be found in former followers who I suspect will be more than > > > willing to give you a break, and whose own healing you could probably > > > facilitate if you were willing to get off the silk and join their > > > humanness. And there may be a biochemical reason why you will never > > > escape from what I call the "prison of specialness", but for your sake I > > > hope there is and that you find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2012, at 10:09 PM, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > > Now I am not sure, because I don't have the will or the stamina to go > > > > > through the long list of posts dealing with the hitting issues, why > > > > > this is such a hot topic or by who(m?) it has been brought up (but I > > > > > am guessing perhaps Vaj) or even what the exact questions regarding > > > > > hitting are. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, let's put this to rest once and for all. > > > > > > > > There were several untrue rumors flitting around about Robin, most > > > > facilitated by TM TB's: > > > > > > > > -he was dead > > > > > > > > -he committed suicide > > > > > > > > -he went "insane" > > > > > > > > -his schtick ended when he began beating students on stage. > > > > > > > > The only one that has some semblance of truth is the latter and then > > > > only vaguely. All the people I knew involved in WTS stopped when a VHS > > > > of Robin thumping his fists (not beating, not punching) on a student > > > > circulated. It was the last straw for some "hangers-on". > > > > > > > > > >
