--- In [email protected], awoelflebater <no_reply@...> wrote: > > I have to take something a little personally here Curtis and that is: > > Your group was functioning under the conditions of a > well known phenomenon and their reports are as suspect as those of any eye > witnesses but multiplied by a thousand... > > You're correct about the "was functioning" part. Where you have missed the > mark is assuming I am still under any spell in my recounting of my > experiences during seminars.
I don't know why you assume this but it was not an intended part of my comments. I was talking about people corroborating it back then, not now. Wait, I get it, it is my use of their "reports" which I see could be taken as you reporting. Thanks for clarifying, that was not my intention. I am talking about people at the time being used as proof that his state was legitimate as the Unity of Maharishi's system. I wasn't thinking of you. < You don't know me well enough to assume that.> Nor did I. > > Now go ahead and let me "have it", I can tell you love this kind of thing.> Ouch! I can't see how this characterizes our chatter here Ann. If you are judging me on how I am relating so some others perhaps you can give me a break that you may not know me well enough to make too many assumptions yet. Of course your opinions flattering or otherwise are your own, and this is a great place to express them. But for the record, I have nothing to let you have it for, I am enjoying having you here. > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@> > wrote: > > > > Since Vaj is being a pretty good sport about this I will speak up for him > > and say that he wouldn't be out of line in doing a Snoopy's I-told-you-so > > dance on this one. What Ann may not be aware of about the dynamics of the > > place is that the Robin hitting people issue wasn't really about Robin > > hitting people. It was being used as a tool by some here to impeach Vaj's > > credibility. And it was Robin who, through a convoluted process of > > reasoning I will get to below, was one of the biggest enthusiasts of this > > POV, knowing all the while that he was bullshitting us all. > > > > Here are a few problems I see in this whole deal. Vaj's perspective on > > this has been misrepresented in Robin's mea culpa to allow for the > > equivocation room that I suspect is not really flying even for those who > > would rather die than admit that Vaj has been vindicated here. Since I've > > endured pages of Robin's accusations that I am being subtly deceptive on > > this board I'm gunna spell this out as I see it. > > > > Vaj said there was a video of Robin hitting someone. > > > > Robin said this video was impossible and watched as others piled on Vaj to > > use this as an example of a lie he had been caught in. > > > > Robin encouraged this POV. > > > > Someone showed up who could corroborate the story. > > > > Before she could, Robin came clean. But still is attempting to evade an > > owed apology to Vaj who he let hang out to dry, knowing full well there was > > bullshittery in play. > > > > And I get it that the fans of the careful parsing will delight in the > > distinction between when the hitting took place and that perhaps Robin was > > technically not boldfaced lying in a Clintonesque "I never had sex with > > that woman" but was at the very least involved in the statements that > > followed that Monica was deranged. > > > > So why the slick Willy routine Robin? There is plenty of compassion here > > for weird shit we all did in our past and this doesn't sound like such a > > big deal. There were a whole bunch of weird psychological "breakthrough" > > cults that seem to be far worse than what you were running back then. If > > you weren't banging your disciples ten deep in Elvis' Graceland white panty > > parties, you come off as better than most people in your position of power > > over the entranced. > > > > So the last few months of Vaj battles seems kind of disingenuous. Vaj was > > shooting, you were dancing, the music stopped so own it. It wasn't such a > > big deal until you used it as a way to make Vaj look bad in what I consider > > to be a disgusting campaign around here to make it look as if Vaj was never > > a TM teacher, which you also piled on for. > > > > You did the guy wrong and aren't owning it. > > > > > > Now I'd like to get to the part that represents my biggest interest in what > > you wrote. You seem to be playing two sides of a dangerous fence here. On > > one hand you are calling your visions of demon infested people a > > hallucination, but you don't seem to be renouncing the POV that there > > really were Gods who made you enlightened. And I find your holding on to > > the power of your previous enlightenment itself problematic because you > > seem to be using the buy-in of your followers as proof that you really were > > uniquely (compared to the the rest of us) in some powerful enlightened > > state rather than being one of the millions who was suffering from mental > > impairment. > > > > Here I tread lightly but earnestly. > > > > I don't believe this POV helps your recovery and I suspect if you are under > > the care of any doctor they would agree. People have followed others > > suffering from deranged mental states into actual "cut off their heads" > > battle Robin. People bought into Mao. Lots of people. Millions of > > people. Hundreds of millions of people. > > > > The statement that everyone in the room was experiencing the same thing > > when you did in your "out damn spot" demon dances is a false proof > > statement with no epistemological merit. Your group was functioning under > > the conditions of a well known phenomenon and their reports are as suspect > > as those of any eye witnesses but multiplied by a thousand because you guys > > shared a common language to discuss experiences that shape reporting to > > make it all fit better. There were big payoffs for anyone who answered the > > cop's question: "was he the one who you saw sneak behind the counter at > > Katz's Deli and remove half of one of their piled mile high pastramis on > > rye, leading to Hazel Kurmuffle ending up with a normal sized non Katz Deli > > style sandwich?" with a "yes master". (or whatever it was that designated > > you as especially in the know compared to them. (Maharishi assumed that > > title as his name and upped Guru Dev's to His Divinity, named no doubt for > > that jello, whipped cream, grape and marshmallow dessert popular in the > > 50's.) Sorry, I am prone to food digressions... > > > > You and I have had our friendly connections here. I believe they digressed > > into a diluted form of the interactions you described in your "I did it but > > not exactly as he said I did and it was the vedic gods after all" > > non-admission. From the beginning of our interactions I objected to the > > sports metaphors for our discussions because it was not a battle for me, it > > was a discussion of our different POVs and where we draw our lines. But > > for you it seems to have been a dance of dominance. One that ended our > > friendly discussions when you seemed compelled to push my face in your > > perspective of my faults as if you were expelling something impure in me. > > > > IMO you are still not coming clean with your fellow humans Robin. You are > > trying to have it both ways. None of us is running the > > "truth" here,it just isn't one of our options. The battle is over. > > Everyone should put their maces and lances and bows and arrows away and go > > home to our families. I believe for you some of the pieces of that puzzle > > will be found in former followers who I suspect will be more than willing > > to give you a break, and whose own healing you could probably facilitate if > > you were willing to get off the silk and join their humanness. And there > > may be a biochemical reason why you will never escape from what I call the > > "prison of specialness", but for your sake I hope there is and that you > > find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2012, at 10:09 PM, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > Now I am not sure, because I don't have the will or the stamina to go > > > > through the long list of posts dealing with the hitting issues, why > > > > this is such a hot topic or by who(m?) it has been brought up (but I am > > > > guessing perhaps Vaj) or even what the exact questions regarding > > > > hitting are. > > > > > > > > > OK, let's put this to rest once and for all. > > > > > > There were several untrue rumors flitting around about Robin, most > > > facilitated by TM TB's: > > > > > > -he was dead > > > > > > -he committed suicide > > > > > > -he went "insane" > > > > > > -his schtick ended when he began beating students on stage. > > > > > > The only one that has some semblance of truth is the latter and then only > > > vaguely. All the people I knew involved in WTS stopped when a VHS of > > > Robin thumping his fists (not beating, not punching) on a student > > > circulated. It was the last straw for some "hangers-on". > > > > > >
