--- In [email protected], doctordumbass@... wrote: > > Uh, Gee, Barry - It sure looks to me, and everyone else > here, that *you* got YER BUTTONS PUSHED. Karma's a bitch, > ain't she?? :-)
So you're essentially saying that you have ZERO experiential basis on which to discuss the puja and its supposed effects, right? And instead of owning up to this, you're trying to claim that *I* am the one who got his buttons pushed. May I remind you of who was the "primal button pusher" in this scenario, as the result of nothing more than relating my own personal experience. Since you have NONE, you rely on demonization and the other classic tactics of the TM TB cultists. I repeat my challenge, which you ignored. Tell us, *on the basis of your own PERSONAL experience* why you think the puja is anything more than just words chanted and moods made. We'll wait... > --- In [email protected], turquoiseb wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], doctordumbass@ wrote: > > > > > > Agreed. Those who continue to say that there is no > > > transcendental value in the Puja are simply parroting > > > the values of the material world we live in. > > > > Sorta the same way you're parroting things TOLD to > > you by people you consider "authorities?" At least > > *we* are speaking from our own experience. How many > > pujas have *you* performed? > > > > > Lazy, confused minds, much more willingness to flow > > > with the incomplete values of this world's consciousness, > > > than attempting something different, something new, > > > outside the boundaries of common experience. > > > > Ahem. *I* am the one speaking "out of the box" here. > > *You* are the one invoking old mood-makey things you > > have been TOLD. Again, *I* am the one speaking from > > experience, whereas *you* are talking from theory. > > > > > Materialism is an awesome blindness, because it can > > > never be disproved. It is the safest harbor from > > > reality that there is. :-) > > > > Some would say that is has a great deal more to do > > with reality than believing in things you've only been > > TOLD about by others, with no experience of personally. > > Or correct me here...how many pujas have you performed > > in your life, Jimbo? I've done thousands. And *on the > > basis of that experience*, I think that their supposed > > "effect" can be almost completely written off to the > > placebo factor, and moodmaking. > > > > I *understand* that others -- IMO those who still cannot > > break free from the conditioning of what they have been > > TOLD about the puja, during the same instruction in which > > they were TOLD to moodmake while performing it -- may not > > agree, and may hold to "good experiences" they had while > > performing puja. Me, I have no such allegiances to the > > past, or to past beliefs. I never noticed much of an effect > > from the puja, even after following all of Maharishi's > > instructions to the letter, and trying to moodmake myself > > *into* having a "good experience" the way I was told to. > > Therefore, in retrospect, *based on my own personal > > experience*, I have to believe that what I was TOLD about > > the puja was flowery bullshit. > > > > Please explain to us the basis on which you believe it's > > more than that. We'll wait. > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "seventhray27" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey, Tom Ball was a good friend of mine back in the day. I think he > > > > threaded the needle pretty well here. > > > > > > > > And just like Tom to address it pretty much head on. I like that. > > > > > > > > Ah, the Puja. Just thinking about it makes me what to pull out my set, > > > > each piece wrapped in an ochre colored bag, I had specially made. > > > > > > > > I haven't sung the Puja in some time, but Michael, you have been > > > > inspiring me to get back in that mode. > > > > > > > > And yes, I always felt the Puja did just what it was supposed to do - > > > > prepare the ground for the imparting of the mantra. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I am wondering what the deal is on puja anyway. > > > > > > > > > > This is what good old Tom Ball, Re-certified Governor of North > > > > Carolina says on his blog and website about TM: > > > > > > > > > > But doesn't the Transcendental Meditation instruction ceremony involve > > > > "offerings?" > > > > >  > > > > > The TM instruction ceremony derives > > > > > from and retains many elements of the traditional Vedic custom of > > > > guest reception: offering a bath, fresh garments, food, etc. â" > > > > all done > > > > > symbolically during puja as gestures of respect. The puja used in TM > > > > > instruction recites the names of the tradition of teachers and honors > > > > > them, most prominently acknowledging the latest representative of that > > > > > tradition, Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Saraswati, or "Guru Dev" > > > > > ("great teacher"). > > > > > > > > > > There is no "offering to gods" or any such thing. It's more like > > > > giving an apple to your teacher â" very simple and natural. > > > > > > > > > > I heard that the TM instruction ceremony mentions names of gods? > > > > > > > > > > The secular-type puja performed during Transcendental Meditation > > > > > instruction uses the traditional Sanskrit language of honor and > > > > respect > > > > > that's indigenous to the ancient Vedic culture. Although it may sound > > > > foreign to Western ears, the formal > > > > > language is used ceremoniously and not religiously. For example, in > > > > this Vedic performance, when Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Sarasvati, > > > > is metaphorically compared to a > > > > > traditional deity of that culture, Brahma, the deity itself is not > > > > > appealed to or acknowledged one way or another. If you say someone is > > > > > "Christ-like," it's a way of expressing high adoration and > > > > appreciation. It doesn't mean that you are engaged in worship or even > > > > believe in > > > > > Christ. > > > > > > > > > > There are others like former TM teacher Bob Fickes who say the > > > > puja ceremony helps to refine the awareness of the initiator and gives > > > > the mantra its potency. He has said without the puja the mantra won't > > > > have the proper vibration or potency. > > > > > > > > > > Still others, specifically Raja Badgett Rogers has said that the > > > > mantra doesn't work unless there is the offering or dakshina of the > > > > fruit, flowers and money, and it is the offering, the gift, that makes > > > > the mantra work and of course the flowers and fruit are part of the > > > > puja. > > > > > > > > > > So to all you TM teachers or former TM teachers, what is the puja > > > > actually for of the above possibilities or is it something different > > > > altogether? Or a combo of the above? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
