--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <LEnglish5@...> wrote: >
> > So, even if one practices and "masters" jhana techniques, one really isn't > > doing anything spiritually good. You can see signs of this in the entire > > world-wide Buddhist culture that celebrates people burning themselves alive > > as a good thing.> I am very interested in the research that distinguishes the different brain states in different meditation practices, and enjoyed your post up to here. But this seems like a very anti-intellectual statement bordering on fanaticism induced, credibility destroying, stupidity. Reading this reminds me that the chances that we are actually get to the bottom of what is a serious question is slim. I propose that neither side KNOWS, and should approach the research with a tad more appropriate humility. It would be interesting to know what effects each have without the assumption that one or the other exists on an apriori high ground of "spirituality" and its interpretive value judgements. > All of the samatha practices that have been studied, start out as simple > relaxation techniques, producing some level of coherent alpha, just as TM > does. However, over time, practitioners start to show more and more gamma EEG > -the signature of paying attention to specific objects of attention- both > during and outside of meditation. > > As well, virtually all meditation techniques other than TM, tend to > compartmentalize the brain during practice, as well as suppressing the > specific portions of the brain thought to be responsible for our "sense of > self" -this last is proposed by some researchers, in positive tones no less, > as the reason why long-term meditators (non-TM) become "selfless." > > The irony is that all eyes-closed techniques tend to activate the same > general regions of the brain. Scientists call this set of regions the > "default mode network" (DMN)and the current theory is that it is the style of > functioning of the brain, especially specific parts of the brain, that > activates during introspection, while the outward attention suppresses the > DMN and activates the parts of the brain having to do with paying attention > to things. > > The default way in which the DMN activates whenever you close your eyes > involves increasing alpha EEG and alpha coherence. This goes right along > with MMY's claim that any and all thoughts have a tendency to settle down > towards silence when let on their own. TM, according to MMY, takes advantage > of this natural tendency and merely enhances what naturally goes on anyway. > > On the other hand, other techniques, regardless of how they are described > (effortless, effortless concentration, full-concentration, etc), over the > years start to produce the situation where the normal activity of the DMN > involves increased gamma EEG, which is a very unnatural situation. At the > same time, these techniques have suppressed the self-centers of the brain, > leading to a loss of sense of self, also a very unnatural situation. > > So, even if one practices and "masters" jhana techniques, one really isn't > doing anything spiritually good. You can see signs of this in the entire > world-wide Buddhist culture that celebrates people burning themselves alive > as a good thing. > > Afterall, since they are without a "self," it's not wrong for them to do > violence to a specific living thing: their own physical body. > > L > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" <emptybill@> wrote: > > > > > > So called "mindfulness", as taught in the Western world, is an > > incomplete practice. > > > > In the Buddhist traditions (the original source lineage), the practice > > of mindfulness is preceded by the practice of jhana/dhyana-samaapatti. > > Having successfully mastered regular 2-3 hour absorptions in the deep > > states of vitarka/vichara/priti/sukha, a practitioner is then fit to > > practice "mindfulness" (smrityupashtaana). > > > > Because this deep meditation was not mastered first, many people with 30 > > years > > of vipassana practice are now wondering why this method doesn't give > > "enlightenment" > > as detailed in the Pali and Sanskrit Buddhist scriptures. > > > > Incomplete practice is the reason. If you only do "mindfulness", you > > will indeed become > > more mindful but only on the surface level of the mind. Deep and abiding > > dhyana-samadhi is the prerequisite. > > > > Also, we have experienced death many times. If death is a samadhi, then > > where has the > > "samadhi" gone? > > > > We are still here ... searching for fullfilment. > > This ain't no realm of samadhi. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > Dunno about death, but the drug method seems to be temporary, and just > > because you have feelings that can be described a certain way, doesn't > > mean it's the real deal. > > > > > > Look at the long-term results of practicing mindfulness on a > > physiological level. Scary. > > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann" awoelflebater@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Forty-three years transcending through the lens of > > Saraswati(Knowledge of Nature), experience and understanding higher > > states of consciousness by the grace of Shankaracharya, a dose of > > stability and adventure, 3.5 grams dried psilocyben cubensis, two ounces > > lemon juice, a pinch of ginger in one shot and it ALL makes perfect > > sense! Five- plus hours of Transcendental awareness, unbounded, > > infinite, pure love ,compassion, mercy, empathy, spiritual in-site, joy > > and bliss. A *little* unorthodox? Yes, but what an experience! Dude, > > this must be Soma! P.S. my personal formula, do not try this at home... > > or any other place! > > > > > > > > It sounds exactly like the NDE's I've been reading about lately. So, > > there are at least three ways to get to samadhi - drugs, meditation and > > death. Anybody know of a fourth way? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
