Oh come on please - these calculations are the basic of astrology, that they are geocentric.
I am not going to get into any detailed argument with you, because I have already addressed everything you had to say. Having watched your arguments with Robin, Judy, Richard etc, I am not a fan of your reductionist style of argument - where you refuse to address major portions, you are stubborn, you obfuscate, you distort. You are very unscientific in your perverse support for science. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:03 PM, salyavin808 <fintlewoodle...@mail.com>wrote: > ** > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula <chivukula.ravi@...> > wrote: > > > > Your argument here doesn't hold any water here salyavin. > > > > > The calculations are the only part of astrology that are mathematical, it > > is geocentric - from the POV of the observer on earth. The positions of > > planets have precise calculations so now you have softwares which churn > out > > the charts, as Bhairitu has commented certainly Indians didn't believe > > earth was the center and astronomy could have been developed to cater to > > astrology. > > I know how to draw up horoscopes Ravi, and the maths is what gives > it away - IF you know that everything in the solar system goes round > the sun, the ephemeris used to plot positions on the natal chart are > designed to make it look like the earth is in the middle, all those > logarithm tables used to drive me nuts, I used a calculator and a > piece of paper, the hoops you have to jump through to make it look like > the earth is the middle are ridiculous but not as ridiculous > as thinking it will work the same way with the sun where it ought to be, > that would just throw everything else out completely, or rather > it would make even less sense. > > > > > > There are other valid arguments against astrology - it's mystical origins > > and philosophical arguments against it. > > Tha fact it doesn't work? > > > That it doesn't capture the > > essence, beauty of life - life which is a dynamic, living, in the moment > - > > but then most philosophical ideas don't and creative pursuits such as > > music, poetry reflect the beauty, vulnerability of life. > > > > More arguments against - Something you yourself addressed in a subsequent > > post of yours - the personal subjectivity of astrologer creeping in, > which > > of course taints everyone - including yours here where the scientific > > salyavin comes across as very unscientific. > > Actually I'm being ruthlessly scientific here, the only force > known to be infinite in extent is gravity and astrology has > nothing to do with that as a lorry passing you in the street > has a much larger effect on you than Jupiter ever could, let > alone a titchy little speck like Mercury. > > The astrologer must be proposing some sort of "personality field" > that permeates space and is somehow affected by planets movements > and by having a corresponding and predictable effect on people born > at a particular time and place on Earth, but a different effect > on people born somewhere else at the same or a different time. > > The field appears to be unmeasurable except in its effects but > even then only subjectively, no one has ever convincingly > demonstrated that it is a usable indicator of future events or > that personality profiles can be picked out by the people who they > supposedly are excellent descriptions of. These experiments have > been done many times. > > The trick with any scientific endeavor is to make sure there is a > signal to measure and then you can start speculating. Which would > be fine and a good place for starting research *if* we didn't have > any idea about how personalities are formed and a much better > understanding of our place in the cosmos than the people who devised > astrology. > > But giving physics a complete rewrite with no discernable gain is going to > be a tough sell, to me anyway. It's all a bit too anthopo- > morphic. Give a monkey a brain and it thinks it's the centre of the > universe.... > > > Arguments against the scope, > > validity of astrology are also equally valid. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 11:51 AM, salyavin808 <fintlewoodlewix@...>wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" <emptybill@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey! FF-Lifers ... > > > > > > > > Wake up and clarify yer data. Tula lagna or Libra rising? Western or > > > > Jyotish charts? > > > > > > When I was born there were some stars a long, long way off and > > > some planets in the same place they always are, just going > > > round the sun, same for you and me and everyone that ever lived. > > > > > > But it's OK to pretend the Earth is the centre of the solar > > > system and the stars are actually connected in some way in their > > > constellations and that astrological "houses" are real and that > > > it all means something (*anything*) to our lives depending on > > > what time we were born. > > > > > > But then I've got "my" moon in capricorn so I'm bound to be > > > sceptical.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > So far I think only Judy has confirmed which one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > > > > > > > How many Libra (Tula) rising do we have on FFL? > > > > > > > > > > On 06/08/2013 05:58 PM, emptybill wrote: > > > > > > Ravioli Shitviscrewyou - > > > > > > > > > > > > So inspiring that you can do this. It's almost like yer a real > > > > brahmana > > > > > > instead of a Western-sucking Injun psychophant. > > > > > > > > > > > > Western astrologers weren't so good with rahu/ketu or as they > used > > > > to > > > > > > call 'em - > > > > > > north node/south node or new karma/old karma. > > > > > > > > > > > > Got to see Injun jyotish first hand 'cause I have Rahu in Aries > in > > > > 7th. > > > > > > Wife lasted 7 years before being struck down by Kaaladeva. > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. ... ain't no GuruDevi gonna save yer asssets from them > notches > > > > > > on the karmic clock. Like them Buddhists say ... karma rules all > - > > > > fuck > > > > > > God. > > > > > > > > > > > > How're them martinis comin' along? > > > > > > Still calling them "Soma" to your admirers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: > > > > > >> Dear LGG (ji) > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Thank you very much. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> It's all self-learned, self-taught - free of cost, everything on > > > > the > > > > > >> Internet (I'm a product of the internet era, all my > philosophical > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > >> online including FFL of course), nothing from actual books since > > > > 1998 > > > > > > - and > > > > > >> also from the various astrology characters that were mentioned > here > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > >> past few days - the likes of Das Goravani, Sanjay Rath, PVR > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > Rao > > > > > >> and many others. I don't study astrology anymore - stopped for > the > > > > > > last > > > > > >> 5-10 years now. Like I told Obba - if I ever need to refresh my > > > > memory > > > > > > I > > > > > >> head on down to cafeastrology.com run by a lady named Annie > Heese > > > > > >> apparently. (Except she uses the wrong zodiac and wrong > > > > interpretation > > > > > > of > > > > > >> nodes - she reverses it, one could read her all other > > > > interpretations > > > > > > and > > > > > >> safely transfer it to the sidereal zodiac/Jyotish chart) > > > > > >> > > > > > >> OMG I wasn't looking to spend half of my posts on astrology, > anyway > > > > I > > > > > > have > > > > > >> only myself to blame and perhaps Ann for her post on Das and for > > > > > > accepting > > > > > >> my impulsive, spontaneous offer :-) > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Anyway I have an un-influenced blemish-less Mercury in 1st in > > > > > > Sagittarius, > > > > > >> so I'm always learning, curious, eager - if you have something > to > > > > > > teach I > > > > > >> will learn and then make fun of you. Mercury is un-aspected > hence > > > > my > > > > > >> learning is never tainted by my beliefs or subjectivity. Because > > > > > > Jupiter is > > > > > >> the lord and in 12th, it's all in the areas of religion and > > > > > > philosophy, > > > > > >> truth. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> When my Saturn dasha started in Jan 2010 I started magically > > > > talking > > > > > > (I was > > > > > >> extremely introverted all my life, hesitant, unsure, nerdy, > geeky > > > > till > > > > > >> then) and writing and I haven't shut up since. Saturn lord of > 2nd > > > > > > (speech) > > > > > >> & 3rd (writing) in the 5th house of creativity. I also Rahu in > 3rd > > > > - > > > > > > which > > > > > >> makes me obsessive energy wise and so writing then is a good > way to > > > > > > relax > > > > > >> this obsessive Rahu. And it all started because I was trying to > > > > > > impress > > > > > >> this cute Indian dentist I was hitting on and she liked > astrology. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 2:49 PM, laughinggull108 > > > > > > no_reply@: > > > > > > > > >>> ** > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Well done Raviji. I must say that I really like this side of > > > > > > you...you're > > > > > >>> a natural! Where did you learn all this? > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula > > > > chivukula.ravi@ > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > >>>> Dear Ann, > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> First off, let me remind you again that I use astrological > > > > > > analysis for > > > > > >>>> personal growth - nothing less, nothing more. It only > strengths, > > > > > >>>> weaknesses, inclinations, challenges, influences in various > > > > > > domains of > > > > > >>>> life. The unique, personal consciousness of the person under > > > > > >>> consideration. > > > > > >>>> It does your destiny in a sense, doesn't show free-will, > would a > > > > > > good > > > > > >>> tool > > > > > >>>> for understanding one-self, tuning oneself in meeting reality. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> I have an analysis below. Understand this is what your chart > > > > > > shows. You > > > > > >>>> might be already aware of many of your challenges, of your > > > > > > inclinations > > > > > >>> and > > > > > >>>> you certainly may have already overcome or addressed them, > > > > > > especially > > > > > >>>> considering how you come across on FFL. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Of course I might have been completely off the mark - anyway I > > > > > > will wait > > > > > >>>> for your feedback. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> ----------------------------------------- > > > > > >>>> You are a very self-focused individual, hardworking, reliant, > > > > > >>> disciplined - > > > > > >>>> you, most likely at a young age were compelled to take > > > > > > responsibility > > > > > >>> owing > > > > > >>>> to family circumstances. You were either through your or > other's > > > > > >>>> perceptions counted on to be the elder, regardless of if you > were > > > > > > not the > > > > > >>>> eldest of your siblings or not, you were the major influence, > had > > > > > > the > > > > > >>> major > > > > > >>>> say in your family. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> You have a powerful need to be nurture and be nurtured. You > spend > > > > > > a lot > > > > > >>> of > > > > > >>>> your effort,energy into creating a secure home for yourself - > > > > > > probably > > > > > >>>> stemming from your childhood. Mostly extremely attached to > your > > > > > > mother > > > > > >>> and > > > > > >>>> not the father, yet there is lot of friction with the mother, > > > > with > > > > > >>>> feelings. You get involved or get caught up, willingly or > > > > > > unwillingly in > > > > > >>>> lot of family drama. OTOH your relationship with your father > > > > > > created > > > > > >>>> feelings of being un-tethered. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> You can also get caught up in emotional upheavals, melancholy, > > > > > > this sense > > > > > >>>> of burdened by being the go-to person, an obsessive emotional > > > > > > hang-up, > > > > > >>>> matters involving death, dying. (All this the sign of Scorpio > > > > > > being your > > > > > >>>> ascendant with Moon, Saturn and Rahu - yes Rahu and the > ascendant > > > > > > lord in > > > > > >>>> the 4th house). > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> The predominant influence of Scorpio makes you exceptionally > > > > > > intuitive, > > > > > >>> you > > > > > >>>> love to see through, gather the motivations of others. You are > > > > > > totally > > > > > >>>> turned off by superficiality, in-authenticity You have a > > > > presence, > > > > > > you > > > > > >>>> radiate a natural power because of this influence. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> So the way to release the tension from the issues, the > burdens of > > > > > > the > > > > > >>>> emotional upheaval, over-reliance on self - presented earlier > is > > > > > > you > > > > > >>> being > > > > > >>>> involved with your home and your spouse - this relaxes you. > Being > > > > > >>> involved > > > > > >>>> with spouse in social circles of higher knowledge, you may > have > > > > > > met your > > > > > >>>> spouse in such a fashion, you value your spouse for his > knowledge > > > > > > or you > > > > > >>>> look up to him as such. You have a natural respect for men > that > > > > > > present > > > > > >>>> higher knowledge - these are attractive qualities for you. > > > > > > Knowledge is > > > > > >>>> fun, knowledge and fun, pleasure are not contradictory for > you. > > > > > > They go > > > > > >>>> hand in hand. Spouse is an area of fun, knowledge and > relaxation > > > > > > (Venus > > > > > >>> and > > > > > >>>> Jupiter in the 11th house). > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> The ideas of a reform, freedom, justice, equality are very > > > > > > important for > > > > > >>>> you, in a concrete sense - you can be a trouble maker and > pulled > > > > > > the plug > > > > > >>>> on where you saw these compromised People view you as a > dynamic > > > > > > and > > > > > >>>> enterprising in this aspect (a little tainted by my knowledge > of > > > > > > your > > > > > >>> time > > > > > >>>> with Robin, but it's there in your chart). > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> You are a very charming, diplomatic communicator - always > seeking > > > > > > middle > > > > > >>>> ground, playing devil's advocate, covering all contingencies > and > > > > > >>>> possibilities, your opinions always with qualifiers, > > > > > > contingencies. You > > > > > >>> may > > > > > >>>> also be fascinated with visual imagery, symbols, myths - > because > > > > > > of your > > > > > >>>> Mercury in the 12th house (Sun & Mercury in the 12th house in > > > > > > Libra) > > > > > >>>> You yearn, desire to leave your mark as a intuitive, > > > > > > compassionate, > > > > > >>>> sensitive, perceptive as your contribution, in the areas of > the > > > > > > inner > > > > > >>>> search of truth, spirituality. > > > > > >>>> ----------------------------------------- > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> That's all I have for now dear Ann, it's just a basic > analysis - > > > > I > > > > > > didn't > > > > > >>>> cover many aspects because there's lot more that can be said. > May > > > > > > be > > > > > >>>> depending on your feedback I may have more, or I may go back > and > > > > > > come > > > > > >>> back > > > > > >>>> with something I missed or the other areas that I have > completely > > > > > >>> skipped. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
