From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote :
Jim has lost it before and will lose it again, but this is by far the worst
case of losing it so far.
Enlightened? At this point he's barely human...
I'm interested in why anyone who risks a dissenting voice round here is classed
as emotionally immature as well as intellectually lazy. I can see how someone
with entrenched beliefs might assume that they must have arrived intellectually
at what they think is true, and that therefore anyone who disagrees must be
deficient not to have arrived at the same conclusion.
But to think that makes them some sort of emotional cripple as well is most
puzzling, I can only assume it's a catch all insult that's designed to hurt
whoever might be on the receiving end, and sort of a way of saying you must be
a TOTAL loser and not just an intellectual one for daring to disagree with me.
Like a toddler saying I HATE YOU FOREVER because you won't give them a second
biscuit.
I think the reason this happens is that Jim and other spiritual/religious types
don't realise their beliefs are emotional rather than logical and insult any
contrarians in an accordingly similar way to how they feel they've been
slighted.
Exactly. They are OFFENDED that someone like myself or you has overcome the
Fear Of God that society tried to imprint us with, and they haven't. They're
still terrified that if they express doubt of any kind, their imaginary friend
God will smite them. Can't risk that. And they're more than a little pissed of
that God has *not* smitten us, so they have to try to make up for him being a
slacker and try to smite us themselves. :-)
The two modes of being don't seem to mix very well, this must be why I feel no
emotional pain whatsoever when someone disagrees with me about quantum
tunnelling being a likely cause of creation, and why the hell would I? It's
only an abstract idea that may or may not be true, if I was hung up on it or
actually defined by it then it might be different. That's maybe where the abuse
comes from.
I agree, especially in Jim's case. Let's face it...he is basically NOTHING
without his story of "being enlightened." Without that, he's just another guy
who inherited a little money rather than earned it, quit his job, and moved out
into the country, where now he's so lonely that the only people he ever gets to
talk to are on the screen of his laptop. Or that exist in his imagination, like
his imaginary friend God (or The Ghost Of Guru Dev).
So naturally he *resents* that some of us live in cities where they have pubs
and cafes full of real people, and at which we can sit and talk with these real
people.
I suspect that what he resents even more is that we can sit there and talk with
these real people without having to invent made-up stories to impress them
with.
Jim feels that the only way he can get anyone to listen to him is to say, "Hi,
my name is Jim, and I am fully enlightened." We can just say, "Hi, I'm Barry,"
or "Hi, I'm Salyavin," or "Hi, I'm Curtis," and that's ENOUGH.
But Jim is right, we should be looking for the creator, and if we don't find
him or it turns out to be merely a flux in relativistic quantum boundary
possibilities then so be it. The urge to know is there in me.
Me, I don't really give a shit. I think I realized at age 15 that if someone
could present me with absolute, irrefutable proof that a God existed, it
wouldn't change my life in the slightest.
That is still true, because I got over the Fear Of God belief that they tried
to imprint me with back during my two weeks of Sunday School attendance. Jim
and John never did, so they can't make the leap to living without an "imaginary
friend" who is watching them at every moment to make sure they don't fuck up
and he has to send them to everlasting torment in Hell. Some "friend." :-)
________________________________
From: "curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :
I certainly wouldn't have expected you to agree, Curtis, but your response
hasn't changed my assessment of your motives. Sorry.
M: I didn't realize that this was a discussion of motives. OK, Well in that
case I think your motive for making up a bunch of derogatory shit is to get
back at me for not going along with your "I am enlightened and you are not"
routine. I think that gets you angry and you have to lash out.
But don't worry Jim,there is always Nabbie. He believes EVERYTHING.
---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote :
This was a particularly nasty trollish comment Jim. I will let most of it ride
as an indictment of your character.
But I will correct this: I am not an outsider in my community. I am a leader in
the arts in education movement and just last week addressed 19 Principals in
one of my school county districts about the need to bring arts integrated
teaching in their schools, at the invitation of the regional arts director who
is a fan of my work.
As far as making a living in the arts is concerned you got it wrong sorry to
disappoint, I am very much an insider working to improve the educational system
in my area with my own choice of music from within the system, and recognized
by it.
So you can
fantasize about me not being successful in my chosen field if you want to grind
out your own ill will. But it just doesn't fit the actual facts of the work I
am doing or how it is being recognized in my community. I was just changing
lives one classroom at a time today.
Oh yeah:
J: But, the argument that only they are right, and the rest of the world,
as represented by the other members of this forum, is wrong, is clearly
not sane thinking.
There are so many funny things about this I hardly know where to start. If fact
coming from you the irony is too perfect to comment on. I'll just let the "rest
of the world" think about who just said this!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :
Yes, they are both a piece of work. I think both of them take extreme views, in
social settings, because both of them feel to be outsiders, in the world they
inhabit. Their position reminds me of that of the most vociferous born again
"christians", often found proselytizing, while
working minimum wage jobs.
These are not successful people, Barry and Curtis. Both are white, from upper
middle class backgrounds, privileged as American citizens, and each with a
college degree. Yet, not a hill of beans, between them. I am not necessarily
talking about material possessions, but things like strength of character,
foresight, humility, social intelligence, and a simple ability to achieve that
which they set out to do. All of this, is lacking in them.
So, being emotionally immature, and intellectually lazy, they begin to show
their discontent with society, that it hasn't rewarded them for their bad
decisions. They profess atheism, and go all out against God, and enlightenment,
and any sort of spiritual endeavor that they don't approve of. They see
themselves failing by societies norms, and have now taken the position, that,
"You can't fire me, I
quit!"
But, the argument that only they are right, and the rest of the world, as
represented by the other members of this forum, is wrong, is clearly not sane
thinking.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :
The
ignorant inquisitor.. 'It's not my experience so it does not exist!'
Deltablues'
technique is the old trick of the materialist's (orthodox)
inquisitor, “Tell us, what exactly is your creed?” “Tell us in
terms detailed such that we can understand and then the best of
sophists of us will argue it out with you trying it point by point.
Lot of people have been burned at the stake by uber-intellectualistic
people like Deltablues is trying to be here on FFL.
-Buck
fleetwood_macncheese responding to Turqb:
Bye, bye, Lenz, Jr.
turquoiseb@...> wrote :
See what I mean? Curtis refuted John's idiotic argument point by point, and HE
DIDN'T EVEN HEAR IT. The only thing he can do is repeat the same stupid thing
he's already repeated -- and had refuted -- here on FFL dozens of time in the
past.
You really can't deal with anyone as dumb as this. I repeat my contention --
believing in astrology, God, and the Maharishi Effect really IS like winning
the Trifecta of Idiocy. How does a mind *become* this weak?
________________________________
From: "jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:59 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
Xeno,
I have asked Curtis about his support or evidence for disagreeing with the
statements in the Kalam Cosmological Argument. But he just gave me a lot of
song and dance about his opinions without providing the evidence for his
arguments. Can you give us a solid argument with evidence and support why the
statements in the KCA have a flaw?
Let's take the KCA which
states:
1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause;
2. The universe began to exist;
Therefore:
3. The universe has a cause.
Do you agree with statement 1 or not? If not, please give us your reasons for
disagreeing.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <anartaxius@...> wrote :
Logical arguments about ultimates always contain a flaw. You can reverse the
form of the argument to support atheism and if you do not see the flaw, it will
seem equally valid, that is, that atheism is true. Now there are some atheists
who definitely believe there is no god and they can be as fanatical as a
fundamentalist religionist. Probably they would have no sense of humour about
their
condition. But a real atheist simply lacks a particular kind of belief because
that belief seems neither reasonable or likely. They basically just do not
care. Barry is just testing memes to see what happens when they are activated.
We all have memes which are
basically little snippets of mental routines our minds use. We trade them with
each other, but for the most part these mental stances are just our opinions
about the world around us and we tend to be be rather uncritical as to how well
they really represent what is real, while at the same time taking them as
reality itself.
Take the TMO memes. On FFL, meditators and former meditators all at one time
believed certain things about experience were at least possible, for example,
that if you practice TM, which is not a religion, you will find God. The TMO
memes specify that we are in a state of ignorance, not knowing the nature of
reality. But were we actually in the state of ignorance, we would not have the
capability
to correctly evaluate what we were told because we would be using delusional
thinking to evaluate ideas such as transcendence, states of consciousness and
so forth, so our following this system of thought about reality would
essentially be an act of insanity, that is, mental illness. The system defines
us as in some way incapacitated in knowing what is real, and then expects us to
just jump in, and accept what the system says is real.
A discussion of the Kalam argument:
Cosmological Kalamity
Cosmological Kalamity
Home » Library » Modern » Dan Barker » Cosmological Kalamity Dan Barker
"Daddy, if
God made everything, who made God?" my daughter Kristi asked me, when she was
five years old.
View on infidels.org Preview by Yahoo
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <jr_esq@...> wrote :
Barry,
Have you ever thought that atheism is also a belief-- and an unreasonable one
at that? The Kalam Cosmological Argument should dispel any of your doubts.
