One of the bests post I have ever seen on FFL - thanks Curtis. Very interesting 
to read Marshy's pontifications in context.



________________________________
 From: "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on Not Speaking Ill of Others  +  
Finding Something Good in Others and Talking about that Good
 


  
C: Since Buck decided to take a swipe at me well I have been off the board, I 
will take a moment to make my own case: that Buck comically misunderstands the 
meaning of Maharishi's message as usual and idiotically thinks it might serve 
as a weapon against people who think differently than he does. The hysterical 
perversion of the intention of Maharishi's words being used as a justification 
of his doing EXACTLY what Maharishi is warning against is too good to miss. 
Plus it gives me a chance to comment on Maharishi's style of self promotions as 
a special guy that seems to have worked so well on Buck. My comments will be 
interspersed with Maharishi's below

Don't Speak Ill, Remain Pure, 1964
 
Everyone has to discharge one's duty towards himself and towards spreading of 
this meditation in whatever capacity one can.
And never undermine any other's attempt or desires in whatever humble way it 
may be.

C: The context is his teachers who were bitching about each other. Maharishi 
wants them to get back to work pitching his product and STFU about their 
personality problems with each other. 
 
One thing of very great importance: that now when you have been meditating 
for some time, purity has grown in life quite a lot. As the mind gains 
more and more of the Being, mind becomes more and more pure.

C: Again setting the context, this applies to those who are of a level of 
purity where this kind of magical effect takes place. He is not making a broad 
statement about all people and is not addressing this to non meditators. By 
applying it to Barry and Michael and me, Buck is saying that our consciousness 
is as pure as his so this should be a problem for us too. In Maharish's system, 
like that of the Laws of Manu, there are different instructions for behavior 
for each level of consciousness. He is not instructing Buck to run around like 
a clucking hen berating people like me who are acting according to my own level 
of consciousness according to his system. He is directing this to insiders who 
want or care about his opinions. It is not a scold to be used to beat others 
over the head, it is an insiders tip for insiders.
 
But one thing which you have to be very cautious about is that you don't 
think evil of anyone, don't speak ill of anyone. Otherwise speaking ill 
and thinking ill of someone,
dwelling on the weaknesses of someone, all their bad qualities come to 
your heart; [this way] you get your heart and mind spoiled.

C: Here is where it gets even funnier. For Buck worry to be valid, the things 
we are saying about Maharishi must be true. He is not denying that people have 
real "weaknesses", he is saying that those real weakness come into your heart 
for paying attention to them. So only in the case where Maharishi is an actual 
con man shyster, or whatever other criticism had been leveled does this 
influence come into play. And none of it has anything to do with my own 
critiques of Maharishi's belief system. He is not condemning all philosophical 
disagreement or he would be condemning Shankara's main activity traveling 
around India and debating with and arguing his points with opposing view 
points. Buck is misusing the intention of this instruction because he has 
intellectual boundary problems with people who don't share his provincial view 
of the world.
 
So when through meditation, purity is growing in life, we don't invite 
this mud from outside to make us impure anymore. We have to be cautious 
against our thoughts that we don't think ill of anyone, and we don't do 
ill to anyone naturally.

C: Again, the point is for people who in the system have gained this imaginary 
purity, it is not a universal instruction for outsiders.
 
Speaking ill of others is a very bad.... We say it makes the cloth dirty, makes 
the whole
personality very dirty and impure. That we have to guard against in our 
dealings and feelings with people. Very important; very, very 
important.  It is as important as daily practice of meditation.

C: So WTF is Buck doing chasing us around, drawing our "mud" to himself? If 
what we are doing it is impure, then by dwelling on and attacking us Buck is 
violating the very purpose of the instruction, while at the same time thinking 
it is a way to put us down? Now THAT's funny.

 
In
the olden days in India, there was a practice that if some man did some 
great sin, then the way to repent it was that he would cover his body 
with a cloth like that and will go to any village. Standing out of the 
village, he would shout out: my name is such and such, and I come from 
that village, and I happened to be doing like that and like that and 
like that. He would just announce it and go ahead, and keep on 
announcing from village to village.
 
And the effect was: all the people who heard him, if in their evening 
meetings with their fellow men, they talk about that, then the 
contention is that they partake
of his sin and after some time he becomes pure. Just by talking about 
the sinner, the people who talk about him share his sin.
 
This is very dangerous. Someone has done something wrong and if we dwell on 
that and talk it over with someone, we have been affected by that sin 
and we spread that sin; we partake of his sin and take it upon us.

C: I agree with Maharishi that olden day India was full of idiotic practices.
 
Anyone who has done any mistake there or there or there, we just don't speak 
of it.  Otherwise we will only be shrouding
ourselves with the sins of others. Very important, especially now when 
through this Transcendental Meditation we are making ourselves more and 
more full with Being, means more and more full with purity, then we have to 
guard against this thing which is very dangerous.
 
No one thinks that if I am talking ill of someone, then no one thinks that I am
taking over his sin. It is a common practice in the world to simply talk 
something wrong done by others. It is just very harmful for us.

C: So Mr. Pure guy. Heed your master and STFU about people who you believe are 
sinners. It is very dangerous for you to focus your purity and wa wa woo woo 
power on people who don't share our views. It isn't even his intended point. 
Take a moment to actually read what your teacher said, apply it to yourself 
after you understand what the F was actually talking about.

More below;:

 
Question (inaudible, about newspaper writers?)
 
They do a great service as far as amending of the wrong is concerned, but as 
far as
partaking of his sin is concerned, they do partake. They help the sinner by 
spreading the news about him and everybody talks about him, and then all of 
them partake of the sins. As far as partaking of the sin is 
concerned, that is helpful for the sinner.

C: What a complete indictment of how you behave here Buck. 
 
In Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna said to Arjuna at one point [Gita 9:1, see 
below] that I am giving you this most secret wisdom because, one 
condition out of many that He said was, that you never speak ill of 
others (anasuya). That is you don't speak ill of others,
for this quality in you I think you deserve this wisdom, so I give this 
wisdom to you. Just this quality of not speaking ill of others.
 
Out of my own experience, I tell you, in the ashram of my Guru Dev, there 
were 100s of people, all good disciples. And everyone after all is a 
human being. No aspirant is ever perfect. They come to the feet of the 
master for that
perfection. So everyone has his own failing there and there and there. I had my 
own failings, I never knew what were they, but must be because 
no human is ever perfect.

C: With the myopic self knowledge of George Bush who as asked the question 
about his failings, Maharishi doesn't know himself well enough to know what 
they were. That explains a lot.
 
One thing I was famous about is that I will not speak ill of anyone. I 
would always cherish a hope of his becoming better sooner or later. I 
would always cherish a hope.

C: Mr Self Promotion to the end. He was "famous" for being so wonderful while 
at the same time oblivious to his own faults. I would love to hear the 
discussion over chapattis about the clueless Mahesh by the other disciples! 
 
If someone says: that man has done like that and such a bad man. [I would say:] 
“Now that he is in the ashram he will improve.” Always I cherish a hope against 
all the wrongs done by all the people.

C: Get it Buck? Stop being such a negative d-bag around here. 
 
And the effect that you find today is all this world Movement to bring 
peace to every man all around the world; it is a very great thing in the long 
history of the world.
This great force of purity and strength for spiritual regeneration of 
entire mankind, no  surprise [that it] is based on the faculty of mind 
that will not cherish into the wrongs of others.

C: And he sticks the landing! I am going to predict that Buck will share 
Maharishi's lack of ability for self reflection and will continue to trot this 
out as if it means that critics of Maharishi and his belief system should stop 
expressing their POV here. And when he does, I will laugh my ass off at his 
utter lack of understanding of the system he claims to be such a champion for. 

What you are doing is hijacking Maharishi's belief system into your own 
personal agenda for promoting your image as a super special spiritual person, 
while demonstrating your lack of reading comprehension. Why did it take a 
critic of the system to point out its intended meaning to you?

Now you have three choices. Show me where my understanding is specifically 
wrong and why his words should apply to me, go ad hominem as if that solves the 
problem, or cut and run and apply yourself to writing some new preachy bullshit 
that attempts to sell us on how special you are for the intellectually mangled 
beliefs you hold.




 
 
Bhagavad  Gita 9:1
 
The Blessed Lord said:
 
Now I shall fully declare to you, who do not cavil, this the greatest 
secret, the knowledge combined with the experience, having known which 
you will be freed from evil.
 
 
Quote from Upanishads, which was used in Vedic
Atom Pledge (1980)
 
Let us be together,
Let us eat together,
Let us be vital together,
Let us be radiating
truth, radiating the light of life,
Never shall we denounce anyone, never entertain negativity.

























---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :


Well,
really there is a much larger communal discussion going on here about
dealing with negativity.   As such I am not going to entertain your
particular negativity around this any further. For to go any further
might well necessitate having to denounce you in addition to dredging
your negativity further and I feel that should not be spiritually
useful for either of us right now, according to the teaching.
Instead I shall sit in yoga with your energetic resolution of your
anger issues.  
I
wish you well,  
-Buck     


turquoiseb wrote 
 
Son,... 


How old are you, "Buck?" I'll bet I'm older than you are. 


...as a transcendentalist I well know the reality of my inner experience
with this and for that I am quite a satisfied customer of the
transcending meditation experience. 


I have no problem with this, and am in fact happy for you that your "inner 
experience" has been good for you. What I object to is your assumption that 
YOUR "inner experience" means diddleysquat to anyone else or is good for them. 
Or even that it should. 


I know and can certainly trust in the clarity of that
reality by the science of my experience, thank you for asking. 


"That reality" isn't one. It's only your "inner experience." 

YOUR INNER EXPERIENCE IS NOT REALITY. IT'S ONLY YOUR INNER EXPERIENCE. 


Get it?


I am
not going to get down in to your mud to wrestle with you point by
point about George Bush, life is too short for that.  However there is in deed
a discerning and practical spiritual aspect of caution to what
Maharishi is getting at with his negativity talk around spiritual
practice.  I find it wise to take that to heart.  Jai Guru Dev,
-Buck

Sorry, but I can't "take to heart" the possibility that anyone who still tries 
to end rants by invoking the thoughtstopper "Jai Guru Dev" could possibly be 
"wise."  




turquoiseb wrote :


Two words: "Scorpion nation." Five more: "George Bush is a rakshasa." 



Saner persons than you would have looked at this and realized long ago that in 
Maharishi they were dealing with at best a hypocrite and at
worst an insane person. Yet you still seem to consider him some sort of expert. 
Can you explain to us why you think this? Could it possibly be that the 
memories of him you're trying to hard to protect do not have and have never had 
anything to do with reality?


So
evidently spiritually speaking what Maharishi is saying here is that
if one entertains a negativity then one commits a negativity on the
subtle.  One may even take on the energetics in the subtle.
Negativity in form then it seems is like an entity lodging in the
system spiritually.  Like a stress snag, an entity, like some would
call a thought-form, energetically stuck in the fabric of the subtle
system.   There is proly some truth to that. -Buck





Dear
FFL, 
Culturally
this particular post below attempting to clarify Maharishi's teaching on
negativity is really important.  It did not just show up here.  
And
so accordingly, evidently these TM apostates here like MJ, Turqb, CDB
here having divorced themselves from things TM are trying to protect
what they may well think is their spiritual lives from what they had
experienced as a culture of ethical negativity that was TM, so they
seem to say.  But yet as these guys wallow in their stories even
years later does this not continue to bring on them their own
negativity. Quite evidently according to what Maharishi is teaching
here their own loops in negativity are not really good for these
guys.  It would be more better if they should be silent about these
things of their past and not just keep dredging it up.    They really
should stop all this negativity for their own good and quite possibly also a 
larger
collective good of everyone.  Om, strike that last comment about the
larger collective good for it seems that Maharishi actually was not
talking about collective good or organizations in these early
discourse but more specifically individual spiritual systems.    I do hope that 
their
apostate subtle systems may recover in field effect and come to some
equanimity around their own individual time in TM.
Sincerely,  
-Buck 

Maharishi
on Negativity:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/403800



https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/403804



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dickmays@...> wrote :


Maharishi on Not Speaking Ill of Others
 

Don't Speak Ill, Remain Pure, 1964
 
Everyone has to discharge one's duty towards himself and towards spreading of 
this meditation in whatever capacity one can.
And never undermine any other's attempt or desires in whatever humble way it 
may be.
 
One thing of very great importance: that now when you have been meditating for 
some time, purity has grown in life quite a lot. As the mind gains more and 
more of the Being, mind becomes more and more pure.
 
But one thing which you have to be very cautious about is that you don't think 
evil of anyone, don't speak ill of anyone. Otherwise speaking ill and thinking 
ill of someone,
dwelling on the weaknesses of someone, all their bad qualities come to your 
heart; [this way] you get your heart and mind spoiled.
 
So when through meditation, purity is growing in life, we don't invite this mud 
from outside to make us impure anymore. We have to be cautious against our 
thoughts that we don't think ill of anyone, and we don't do ill to anyone 
naturally.
 
Speaking ill of others is a very bad.... We say it makes the cloth dirty, makes 
the whole
personality very dirty and impure. That we have to guard against in our 
dealings and feelings with people. Very important; very, very important.  It is 
as important as daily practice of meditation.
 
In
the olden days in India, there was a practice that if some man did some great 
sin, then the way to repent it was that he would cover his body with a cloth 
like that and will go to any village. Standing out of the village, he would 
shout out: my name is such and such, and I come from that village, and I 
happened to be doing like that and like that and like that. He would just 
announce it and go ahead, and keep on announcing from village to village.
 
And the effect was: all the people who heard him, if in their evening meetings 
with their fellow men, they talk about that, then the contention is that they 
partake
of his sin and after some time he becomes pure. Just by talking about the 
sinner, the people who talk about him share his sin.
 
This is very dangerous. Someone has done something wrong and if we dwell on 
that and talk it over with someone, we have been affected by that sin and we 
spread that sin; we partake of his sin and take it upon us.
 
Anyone who has done any mistake there or there or there, we just don't speak of 
it.  Otherwise we will only be shrouding
ourselves with the sins of others. Very important, especially now when through 
this Transcendental Meditation we are making ourselves more and more full with 
Being, means more and more full with purity, then we have to guard against this 
thing which is very dangerous.
 
No one thinks that if I am talking ill of someone, then no one thinks that I am
taking over his sin. It is a common practice in the world to simply talk 
something wrong done by others. It is just very harmful for us.
 
Question (inaudible, about newspaper writers?)
 
They do a great service as far as amending of the wrong is concerned, but as 
far as
partaking of his sin is concerned, they do partake. They help the sinner by 
spreading the news about him and everybody talks about him, and then all of 
them partake of the sins. As far as partaking of the sin is concerned, that is 
helpful for the sinner.
 
In Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna said to Arjuna at one point [Gita 9:1, see 
below] that I am giving you this most secret wisdom because, one condition out 
of many that He said was, that you never speak ill of others (anasuya). That is 
you don't speak ill of others,
for this quality in you I think you deserve this wisdom, so I give this wisdom 
to you. Just this quality of not speaking ill of others.
 
Out of my own experience, I tell you, in the ashram of my Guru Dev, there were 
100s of people, all good disciples. And everyone after all is a human being. No 
aspirant is ever perfect. They come to the feet of the master for that
perfection. So everyone has his own failing there and there and there. I had my 
own failings, I never knew what were they, but must be because no human is ever 
perfect.
 
One thing I was famous about is that I will not speak ill of anyone. I would 
always cherish a hope of his becoming better sooner or later. I would always 
cherish a hope.
 
If someone says: that man has done like that and such a bad man. [I would say:] 
“Now that he is in the ashram he will improve.” Always I cherish a hope against 
all the wrongs done by all the people.
 
And the effect that you find today is all this world Movement to bring peace to 
every man all around the world; it is a very great thing in the long history of 
the world.
This great force of purity and strength for spiritual regeneration of entire 
mankind, no  surprise [that it] is based on the faculty of mind that will not 
cherish into the wrongs of others.
 
 
Bhagavad  Gita 9:1
 
The Blessed Lord said:
 
Now I shall fully declare to you, who do not cavil, this the greatest secret, 
the knowledge combined with the experience, having known which you will be 
freed from evil.
 
 
Quote from Upanishads, which was used in Vedic
Atom Pledge (1980)
 
Let us be together,
Let us eat together,
Let us be vital together,
Let us be radiating
truth, radiating the light of life,
Never shall we denounce anyone, never entertain negativity.



==================================================


 
Maharishi on the best principle in life is to find something good in others and 
talk about that good
 
 
 

"Always we take a good attitude about a thing. Any situation we try to mean 
well. In our heart, in our mind we just take a good aspect of it. Taking like 
that a few times, we develop a habit of taking the best out of the thing, 
taking the best out of the situation, making the best out of the situation. 
Otherwise, it is very easy for us to become so critical: 'That is also not 
right,' 'This is also bad,' 'No good,' 'No, no, no.' Everywhere 'no' and 'no,'
and the whole social behavior gets into a muddle.
 
Because if that attitude becomes a habit, then no matter what comes to us -- 
'That is no good' -- we will find a negative aspect and condemn it for that 
instead of locating a beautiful, good, positive point and accepting it for that.
Always we look upon something due to which we can love that thing, that object, 
that situation. Always. Because if someone is a bad man, at least we should 
save our heart and our mind by not thinking of the evil doings of his. We will 
pick up some one good point in him and
then admire him for that one
good point. We don't mind the other dark side of him.
 
Because if we think of the dark side, we are putting the dark shadow in our 
heart and mind. If someone is dark, why should we put their dark shadow in our 
heart and mind by thinking about it? He has done something wrong. Why by 
thinking of his wrong should we allow that wrong to occupy our heart and mind 
and muddle our life?

And therefore, the best
principle in life is: Find out something good in him and talk of that good, 
that's all. Otherwise, it's very easy when two people sit and talk about it, 
'Look at that, that man, that, that, that.' [Audience laughter] Without any 
reason we bring the bad shadows in our heart and mind. It's lack of skill in 
viewing things, in commenting on things. 

Always we pick up a good point. We feel good about it. If we speak, we radiate 
good in the hearts of others. It's very, very necessary that particularly, 
particularly with those who are dear to you, when you sit together with
them alone, always talk of some good things here and some good things there and 
some good things here. Then the meeting is of a very, very valuable, beneficial 
nature.

If you sit together and think of that man like that and that man like that, 
[it's a] waste of life. That meeting is a waste. Never with your friends, with 
your near ones, with your dear ones do we talk of something negative. Because 
so many millions of things are there for us to talk [about], why focus on that 
one [negative] point and unnecessarily make ourself miserable and make that man 
miserable with whom we are talking?

It's very important that we inculcate a habit of looking at the good points of 
others. And it's very easy to do so particularly when we are meditating and we 
have more ability to forgive others."


~Maharishi~
~Squaw Valley, USA -- August 21, 1968 -- Audiotape~


Jai Guru Dev



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