Certainly we all pale when compared to your expertise on India, Michael. BTW, when was I in Delhi and what did I see there?

On 11/22/2014 08:20 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
You have no idea what I or anyone else knows about India and your trip or trips there make you no expert.Your time in TM seems to have given you a certain amount of TM similar hubris on your expertise - perhaps you can give us some John Hagelin style videos of your I'm certain I'm right cuz I been to new Delhi?

*From:* "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Saturday, November 22, 2014 9:36 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Many Swami Brahmananda Saraswati discourses are waiting to be published

Visiting India will give you an understanding of their culture which you cannot otherwise get. And you MJ, make huge mistakes misunderstanding Indian culture. What would you think if someone told you how some bakery good you make tastes if they never eaten it?

On 11/22/2014 06:20 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com <mailto:mjackso...@yahoo.com> [FairfieldLife] wrote:

Refreshing - we see that not everyone is impressed with "I went to India and so I'm an expert."

*From:* "Tormod Kinnes tkin...@gmail.com <mailto:tkin...@gmail.com> [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, November 22, 2014 5:51 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Many Swami Brahmananda Saraswati discourses are waiting to be published

Dear Bhairatu

You write of your background for saying "TM is nothing but . . .". Good. But I cannot help noting that you still don't give real examples to document your stand.

For example, you write:

    "I also like to refer to Sivananda's "Mind Its Mysteries and
    Control"  . . . to point out the method of meditation TM uses
    with the mantras is nothing new either as that work was first
    published in 1936."

I took the trouble to search through Sivananda's book, but if it contains anything specific about the TM system, I missed it. The Smartist mantras and the main criteria for selecting from among them are not specified there, not as far as I could see after a quick search. Nor are Guru Dev's warning that OM (which is often found in Sivananda's writings) is not a proper mantra for householders.

You write

"mantras were published in the west before Maharishi".

Yes, but a mass of syllables is not the TM system either. Many sounds and words of the language - Long, Fine, and so on - may in fact be used as mantras.

Then you suggest something about seed sounds:

"TM uses beej mantras because they don't need any empowerment."

You also say that the TM initiation ceremony helps, and that other ways may help too.

    "The puja helps but Indian astrologers and ayurvedic
    practitioners hand them out to clients without any elaborate

In Guru Dev's discourses one finds a similar view in choosing the mantras. One gets a suitable mantra either by the guru or in some other way. Paul Mason has gathered, translated and published several books with ideas of Guru Dev.

    "where the beej mantras came from . . lost in antiquity and
undoubtedly commonly in use even at the time of Shankara."

This seems to be speculation.

"TM is really just "yoga lite". -

I should say your proofs are lite too. Good, specific documentation is the thing called for.


There are some sources outside TM, sources that reveal the settings and transmission to Maharishi when he was trained by Guru Dev, benefited by his company, and was asked to bring swift and deep meditation to the masses.

Elsa Dragemark presents Dr. Raj Varma:

     "Doctor Varma came to Guru Dev six months before Maharishi and
    knows more about Guru Dev and Maharishi than any other person I
    have met. [p. 240]

Dr. Raj Varma tells (in Elsa Dragemark. The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas. Stockholm: E. Dragemark, 1972):


    Maharishi loyally followed in his master's footsteps. . . .
    Maharishi stayed with Guru Dev until the day his master left his
    body. It was in Calcutta, the 20th of May, 1953.
    Guru Dev then called Maharishi and asked him to sit down. Guru
    Dev said:
    — My time is up. It is time to leave, but still one thing
    remains. There was something else I should have done, but I did
    not have the time to carry it out. It is the usual custom that
    the work remaining for a guru is completed by his disciples. It
    is a tradition that the father's task is completed by his son and
    what now remains you shall complete by yourself.
    — Master, Maharishi said, by your lotus feet, what remains? Your
    wish is my command. What do you wish, tell me, so that I can
    fulfil it. Guru Dev said:
    — Look around. Many people are dejected. There is a lack of
    energy in their minds. Their minds are not strong enough. What I
    {p. 261] have taught you also contains the knowledge of the
    technique for the householder, which has been misinterpreted and
    forgotten during the centuries. This should now be perfected into
    a simple method suitable for everyone. Ask the people to sit and
    meditate after this method a few moments every morning and
    evening. Teach them to enjoy life. . . .


Accordingly, basic TM is meant to be a well simplified and streamlined mantra meditation for others than monks. It is mantra meditation, yes, but there is a system beneath also (it seems to be Smartism), and Guru Dev's teaching that OM is to be avoided among householders, but not necessarily by monks and nuns.

Thus, there are mantras you won't find in TM. I should say it is specialised mantra lore, with some elements in common with other mantra teachings, as you suggest, but with a few decisive characteristics of its own too.

If other mantra methods eventually come up with research documentation that is as good as the better TM documentation,
I won't say TM stands out a lot.

Till then . . .

T. Kinnes

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