Comments below. I tried to put reply in different color, but can't get formatting to take so used initials:
---In [email protected], <seerdope@...> wrote : SEER: In my experience (given all possible observations, a rather microscopic slice of life) those that have loosened up or (possibly) lost a straight jacket sense of limited and static identity, tend to laugh a lot. Not (necessarily) in dumb and silly reactive ways, but more towards deeper, joyful, playful laughter. Play is perhaps a key theme. MMY, a flawed but perhaps relevant example) was like that, at times, in smaller settings, particularly in the pre 1975 days. EM: I like this - if there is one thing that terrifies me today - it is an identity that represents and reflects a self-fulfilling prophecy, a closed system, a done deal in terms of personal growth, someone who is set in their ways and who never questions themselves. Yes, with one goal towards what you mention. I love and laugh at what I call the "human condition" quite a bit - helps keep me balanced and in touch with the concepts of compassion and forgiveness. DOPE: And those with a deep sense of (in their view) the absurdity of life, even if its exposition seems dry, pedantic and even morose (like the Woody Allen interview within the "Atheist" video I posted yesterday, still can have a robust sense of humor.) Both are in a sense, result from finding less or little to hang onto, less ability or need to impose grand meanings and narratives on life and its events, and more a moment to moment sense of adventure to find or simply see momentary wonder, joy or irony in things as they occur. EM: Great humor like great art often comes out of pain and suffering. RIP Robin Williams. Well, I like narratives in that I like stories, but in personal terms, it can get so grandiose and egotistical at times - relaying the *narrative* of one's life as a way of being. Gets in the way of living it. The mind by itself - I think it is overrated, personally. Inspiration comes from the heart and spirit. They gotta all be connected or it does get insanely and obscenely dull and repetitive. The mind gets off on itself and thinks it knows things - important things, which makes it happy and then it releases happy chemicals - I suspect it may all be a large form of mental masturbation (forgive my term). This ability to be present for life and for others is what I want to practice and I am making the shift in the last third of my life (despite what my mind thinks) and I hope to do it with the sense of adventure and momentary wonder you mention, and that takes being relaxed. Being on vacation is when I relax, in solitude also. With most others, in daily life - not so much. SEER: A more generalized (possibly obtuse and pompous) framework is that a static, limited sense of self are deep roots of self-deception. Those who are not as tightly tied to an identity based on common ID markers such as level of education (and schools attended) career, age, gender, income, status, possessions, steady progress in life (not the ups and downs of, you know, "losers"), what others think of them, appearance and physical flaws, a conviction regarding the correctness of their thoughts and judgments, tastes, appear to have exponentially greater degrees of freedom to "play". And in that play, express and enjoy wide ranging humor reflecting the contradictions, "absurdities", disconnects, and juxtaposition of unexpected elements. Typically, it is not, at at least less so, humor aimed at diminishing others. EM: At one time, my identity and sense of self-worth was completely tied to my career and performance in the career. What a disaster that was. Am learning a new way. I do love to "play" - the definition of "play" and also the word "fun" have radically expanded in scope in the last couple of years. Re: "humor aimed at diminishing others" - ridicule is never truly good humor - or stated in good humor. :) DOPE: And having less to lose when things inevitably change, perhaps enables them more of a sense of adventure in life, rather than keeping it safe and secure. EM: Undoubtedly. SEER: "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not" (Yogi Berra) In theory, I love science and its methods, despite severe limits. Particularly neuroscience, broadly defined. However, in practice, I am quite leery of psychological studies using interviews with canned questions, particularly if "Yes/No" are the alternatives. Even 10 point scales can be silly responses to complex questions. "More than once it felt good when I heard on the news that someone had been killed” “I could never enjoy being cruel.” I would hope anyone with a sense of humor as well as some sense of the diversity and richness of life to reject such questions, and scribble in: "It depends! On definitions, on context and degree (not that morality is necessarily conditional). And if you want to talk about it great, but I am not going to give you a misleading, yet easily quantifiable and scored because it makes your study easier to do and let you draw unwarranted conclusions to an unsuspecting public." EM: I hate psychological tests of this ilk and all ilks that say things like "on a scale of...."! Don't tell me I'm an ESFJ.....(HA! No, I am not, unless, of course, I'm in nervous breakdown mode) "IT DEPENDS" is always the answer! I posted this article because I like the topic; personally, I think the "test" they used, based on what they mentioned of it, is a bunch of BS. There are no black and white answers. The article itself is lousy and dumbed down for "public consumption." Those that believe this test is valuable are likely self-deceived. Ha. However, I do believe that one must be able to make fun of oneself and those that can't are exhibiting signs, to different degrees, of "self-deception" or heavy ego or "self-rightness", etc. DOPE: And I suspect, some that would laugh at the question “I could never enjoy being cruel.” as absurd, and check and emphatic NO!, may not be the deepest, compassionate, nuanced thinkers on the block. EM: Agree. SEER: Ethical questions regarding an off the cuff call to "nuke the towel heads" or in another arena, for example, large-scale factory farming, may never occur to them. They may have a wide-spectrum, practiced and widely acknowledged sense of humor (particularly after an extended duration of beer pong) but does this (caricature) typically reflect much self-awareness / absence of denial? EM: No, it doesn't. DOPE: What I have seen over the years (yes, limited observations) is that some who possess great outer verve and bravado and air-tight self confidence in expressing loud, black and white positions, may actually be denying quite a bit -- that may finally begin to surface later in life. EM: You, seerdope, have a marvelous sense of humor.
