Re "Racist-driven ghetto-ization you see in the UK": In the London Borough of Tower Hamlets the council instituted the state-sanctioned and law-mandated policy of giving public housing to those who were most in need. And who were they? The poor and those with large families. But who were the poorest and who were those with the largest families? Muslim immigrants! The result was that council-owned tower blocks became full of Muslims and the white working class were discriminated against and squeezed out. The resulting ghettoisation is a classic example of unintended consequences. The road to hell . . .
---In [email protected], <turquoiseb@...> wrote : From: "s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife]" <[email protected]> Barry, re your: "The prophet" was just a man, as was almost every other spiritual figure in history (unless they were women). People should just get over their fantasies about these men and women. Isn't the logic of your position that "believing Muslims" have no place in a modern, secular society like France? If their "believing" leads immigrants to think that they can disobey the laws of the country they live in, then Yes, there is no place for them in that country. Simple as that. They have the right to live their lives within their own houses the way they want (as long as those lifestyles do not violate the laws of the country they've moved to or the rights of their neighbors), but they do NOT have the right to impose those lifestyles on others. Nor do they have the right to tell people who don't respect their lifestyles what they can print in newspapers or say on TV or in movies. Marine Le Pen's Front national will be milking this latest tragedy to push their ant-immigrant message. But at least they do have a point that can be argued. The real problem for the liberals is that they've engineered a situation in which France now has the largest proportion of Muslims in Europe and the Establishment hasn't got a fcuking clue about how to deal with the nut jobs that fundamentalism throws out. (No clue beyond ever-increasing surveillance by the state.) As Muslim immigrants have a much higher birth rate than "native" French citizens the proportion of Muslims to others is going to increase in future; and as these "outsiders" congregate in ghettos this will only exacerbate their sense of alienation from the mainstream. But what can our leaders do? To advocate limiting immigration of specific religious or racial groups is unthinkable to modern multiculturalists. But isn't the alternative just to accept that things are only going to get a lot worse? I'd like to teach the world to sing but you need to actually look at how Europe is changing. Serious reply only please; spare me the wishful thinking. And spare me the histrionics. Unless you've *lived there* (and I don't seem to remember you saying you had, and in recent years), I don't think you have much right to comment about what life in France is like and "their problems." I *have* lived there, and know that most of this "Muslim problem" is a false perception caused by a few nut jobs making it seem as if there are more of them than there really are. This is a *media-caused* problem, not a cultural clash per se. IMO, given a few decades of just treating Muslim lawbreakers the same as *any other lawbreakers* will resolve things fairly well. Those who feel that they have the right to violate their new country's laws will be in prison, and those who feel that it makes more sense to "fit in" will have fit in. I see the latter every day in the Netherlands. The country didn't freak out after a few media-fueled anti-Muslim freakouts, and as a result there really haven't been a lot more. All public policies for immigrants (of *any* religion or lack thereof) are aimed at integration and the *prevention* of ghettos. And so far it's working a great deal better than the racist-driven ghetto-ization you see in the UK.
