---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote :
Salyavin, I find it rather humorous that you appear to consider yourself a final authority on what science can or cannot prove. I haven't made any such claim. Certainly it's a fair statement to say, "we don't have any scientific basis to make such and such a statement", but some of us are not afraid to think a little outside that box, and perhaps more importantly not discount what our experiences may be, "outside that box" If there is no basis to something, why bother getting outside the box? As soon as you do that you get into religious beliefs, and defending those isn't what science is all about. But you can believe any rubbish you like, it only natters when someone tries to sell it as justifying something else. Deliberately spreading ignorance is wrong AFAIC With regard to brain waves affecting the environment, it appears to me you are spinning the discussion, and my comments to arrive a pre-arranged conclusion you are comfortable with. It isn't about comfort. The activity of the brain is only barely measurable at all outside the skull and that's with sensitive equipment, and all electromagnetic waves decrease with the square of the distance travelled. They aren't going to be measurable across a room, let alone a warzone. And why would anyone think someone's brainwaves will affect someone else's anyway? These waves are just reflecting the electricity as it travels round your brain. This is why I point out that the TMO doesn't make any such claims, they are maintaining that reality itself is intimately connected with consciousness at a level beyond that of gravity and elcrtomagnetisn, even the nuclear forces! Yet they give no explanation as to how it might work. Most puzzling. Perhaps you don't buy into the notion that our thoughts can affect our environment, or that a person transcending does not have any effect that expands out. I don't buy into it because there's no evidence or explanatory principle that explains how it might work even if we could measure it. Science isn't something you "buy into" it's supposed to remove belief from the equation, replacing it with probabilities. I don't know. I am speculating that it does. I can't say to what extent, and I am not defending the Maharishi Effect or saying that it works. If I worked at MUM it's the only research I would do. I've discussed this at length with scientists I know and they say "no chance". But I say that there is a definite (to me) subjective increase in the power of TM when it's done in a group. I know enough about it to know that it requires an explanation, but what that explanation will be is an open question. Pheromones caused by relaxing bodies? Subconsciously picking up people's breathing lowering and that affecting your own? Expectations picked up from the introductory lecture? There are many possibilities and parapsychology works by eliminating them all and hopefully leaving you with perhaps a phenomenon worth investigating - though this hasn't happened yet. I've had many ideas for experiments but no one was interested when I worked for the TMO as they thought it was a done deal - Consciousness is the unified field. That's the trouble with religions, they think they already have the answers and are scared of investigating in case their sacred [cash] cows disappear like smoke. "Science is how we've learned not to kid ourselves" Richard Feynman. But I remain open to that possibility. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote : Good nuance. Good comparison. A Caliphate? So the TMO is a social system grounded in ancient literature? Yep, that's a fine comparison. I maintain that brain waves are real and affect one's environment. No one would argue that brain waves are real, but affecting the environment? Not even the TMO is claiming that. Of course they are. No they aren't! They are claiming that they affect the fundamental level of nature not brainwaves, it's their "unified field technology" that they are claiming is affecting your brain, not other people's thoughts. If the brain waves of TM'ers are supposedly more coherent and life supporting (I have doubts about that) then the MMY effect comes (supposedly) into play and effects what others think and do. That is "the environment". We can measure electrical activity in brains easily but you have to attach some sensitive electrodes directly to the scalp to do it. These signals are in the brain, if they could travel outside it would be easy to measure them because we already know the frequencies. All waves, all activity is energy. All energy has force and it could be measured if we had the tools. As long as there is energy there is movement. If radio waves and all sorts of micro waves can be emitted and sent long or short distances through the atmosphere then brain waves are also doing the same thing. Even the beating of ones heart has some ability to be heard and felt outside of the body. I can't help you with your scientific illiteracy. But as your heart can be heard outside of your body a lot easier than your brainwaves can then maybe the Marshy Effect is caused by the slowing down of people's hearts being heard across warzones. Hmm, yes. That makes sense. But we can't and that isn't what they are claiming, the Marshy Effect is supposed to work on some sort of "unified field" that connects all things via our consciousness. Convenient that it seems to be an unmeasurable phenomena, or am I unreasonable in expecting a physical basis to claims for the physical world? Having an effect on a unified field doesn't mean the force, the energy of the brain waves are not somehow hitting outer atmosphere ie being felt outside of the brain and body. Sheesh. Sheesh what? This sentence makes no sense. But it interests me that the TMO publicity machine seems to have had it's way in how it relies on people's ignorance of physics history and understanding of forces and effects. It's their oldest method of working, use a few vaguely familiar sciencey-sounding phrases and use them to piggyback their own beliefs and hope you won't be able to tell the difference. Where we go beyond that, I don't know. I maintain that any body or an object with mass emits waves of some kind. Why on Earth would you want to maintain that? Because he is right, they do. LOL Where we go beyond that, I don't know. And yes, I believe celestial objects fall in to this somewhere. We are free to believe what we like. The TMO are trying to make money by claiming an actual physical effect. Still, I guess your response answers my question about who the letter was aimed at.... You're such a curmudgeon. Why? Someone has to stand up for reality. People like Steve who don't have a grounding in science are the intended recipients of this stuff. They'll bleed him dry if they get the chance. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : All you have to do is read the comments at the bottom of the Youtube video to see what people think of it.A sane person would distance themselves from such *nonsense*. I wouldn't be caught dead endorsing yogic flying and the TMO to create world peace. Might pull for it secretly though, kind of like a Muslim secretly pulling for a Caliphate. From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 11:34 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientific Solution to Terrorism and War Deaths: TM found to reduce them by 70%! Any idea why they are bothering with this? It doesn't even mention yogic flying so if anyone takes it at face value and does some research, they'll instantly find this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyXAB5L3EIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyXAB5L3EIQ And that will be that. Anyone looking still further might wonder why we haven't done it anyway if it works. And then we can say; we have been doing it. And yagyas too! So why doesn't it work? because it just doesn't. There is no action at a distance. None of the research goes anywhere proving that it does. The crime rate in Washington didn't fall any further than it randomly fluctuates over the year anyway, even the editors of the journal that one was published in weren't impressed. And the Lebanon study was even more pointless, does anyone look back at that time and wonder why there was a few fewer deaths than expected when there people meditating in Jerusalem? Of course not, because there wasn't. You can't say that more people would have died if we weren't meditating, how are you going to prove it? There are lies, there are damn lies and there are statistics If this amazing "technology" caused world peace we'd already have it, aren't there 250,000 meditators in South America now? The crime rate in Washington would have dropped to nothing if yogic flying worked. The war in Lebanon would have stopped. Even if it's as good as the claimed unmeasurable effects, how would that help in Syria? 10% fewer beheadings than last month? Wouldn't that interfere with Saudi Arabian justice a bit? They won't like that. Let's face it, it's a nice idea - one of the best, but if they can't even explain how it might work by any known mechanism let alone demonstrate that it does it's dead in the water. Perhaps that's why this advert is heavy on promises and light on explanation? Fess up guys, if it worked the amount of meditators, yagyas and pundits all over the world would have had us all dancing in the streets by now, but we appear to be stuck with having to come up with actual solutions for problems rather than hoping some stirrings of bliss in some mythical unified field will magically save the world. I convert for evidence, but I aint ever seen none for magic, nor even had it explained how it might work. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dickmays@...> wrote : Published scientific studies show TM and advanced practices reduce war deaths and terrorism by more than 70%. (See the journals and statistics below in the middle column.) http://www.gusp.org/pdf/LetterToWorldLeaders.pdf http://www.gusp.org/pdf/LetterToWorldLeaders.pdf
