You seem to approach Realization as some sort of intellectual exercise. You seek conceptual consistancy and coherence like it was some sort of waking state intellectual product. You're not going to find that. While there is comminality to realization, there is also "difference". The "difference" is more the result of different minds/culture expressing that which is outside of expression. Also, why the hostility? It seems that people who talk about enlightenment experiences that don't meet your conceptual definition get you angry in some way. Is that right?
--- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The self-proclamation part has always struck me as > odd. Linked to the > absolutist interpretations of what IT IS. As if > there is some > insecurity. THIS has to be IT. And odd that there > are strong mandates > of how IT can be spoken of. And how IT cannot. And > what one can > understand and what one cannot. > > And if anyone is experiencing Effulgence, a > seemingly endless flow of > liveliness, unshakable bliss (not all bliss is > dumb), constant > wakefulness, actions happening, knowledge happening, > loss of > possessionship (of ideas, POVs, relations and > things), compassion that > seems to be rooted at the core of everything, a > limitless sense of > wonder -- and irony, a not so worried view of > "pending disasters", a > not so impressed view of pending sucesses, then > wonderful. Why not > speak of these things. Why speak in nebulous labels > of "liberation, > awakening, and enlightenment"? Whose liberation, > whose awakening? So > many paths, so many traditions make so many > distinctions. Lots of > trail markers on this hike. Why be so anxious to > claim the pinnacle. > Why not just claim, if claims are needed, "I am > hiking, and its fun". > (oops, sorry "the body is hiking" <smirk> > > > (And I mean experience not in the sense of "I see > the flower" and this > "I experience it", but in the sense of > "Consciousness Groking", > > And the process of self-proclamation, what a > concept. Someone reads a > book and says "I GET that! I must be enlightened." > "hm, they say here > no-self is enlightenment. I have searched high and > low and cannot find > an ego. Ergo I am enlightened." Yet so many > self-proclaimed > enlightened, even here on this list, but more so > else where, directly > contradict each other. > > Sure the indescribable can be approached from > different angles. But > its odd when A says "There is absolutely no ego" and > B says, "of > course there is an ego, you are insane to think > there isn't", and C > says "well, there is an ego, but it finds its proper > role as servant, > not master" and D says "You are a fool to try to > understand this > paradox of ego, it is Brahman, it is confusion" and > E says "well, if > you take this conic section and slice it, its clear > the ego is an > elipse with 16 dancing golden elves who are really > the ashwins." > Perhaps they each went to a different Satsang, or > read a different book. > > Its odd too people claim labels (enlightenemnt, > awakening, > liberation", and not specific "attributes" of such. > Its as if the > label is a smoke screen for "all attributes". But > few are willng to > proclaim specific attributes and discuss in detail. > Which if the > purpose is helping others, to promote insight and > understanding, could > serve a role. But usually its "la de da liberation". > > > The socratic method always struck me as useful. No > proclamations. > Simply questions crafted to allow others to get IT > in their own way, > by their own means. Not that such should be a > universal mandate, but > it does seem to be a humble path to sharing > knowledge. > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or > someone you know. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living</a>. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
