--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > However, it is possible that the "logic" of one
> > state of 
> > consciousness may not be able to evaluate the logic
> > of another. Skip 
> > Alexiander used to make an analogy between
> > enlightenment and Piaget's 
> > stages of development.
> > 
> > You can *explain* that tall, thin glasses and short,
> > fat cylinders 
> > cups hold the same amount of water all day long to a
> > very young child 
> > and they won't accept it as making sense, even when
> > you show 
> > them. "It's some kind of trick" was my own
> > comment...
> I think Skip (too bad he's dead, I liked him) got it
> right using Piaget's stages of cognitive development
> as a model to understand waking state cognition vs
> cognition in Realization. As Piaget points out there
> is a qualitative difference between the cognitive
> stages that can not be bridged (at least from earlier
> to later). There is such a foundational shift in
> self/world from waking state to Realization that it
> becomes very difficult to explain the "experience" of
> Realization. It is almost always misunderstood because
> many of the concepts of Realization have no meaning in
> waking state, but the waking state mind doesn't know
> that. I always talk about No-Self and try to explain
> it, but I get all sorts of flack because it just
> doesn't make any sense in waking state. I realize, you
> just can't make an end-run around someone's state of
> consciousness/experiencing. Kind of like Tookie
> William's sociopathic personality structure making it
> absolutely impossible for him to admit to the murders
> he commited because it meant that he would loose
> control. He'd rather die than loose manipulative
> control. People see the world as they are and have a
> difficult time seeing the world as they aren't (duh!).

> What strikes me as odd in these discussions is the
> degree of hostility. Why do people get so pissed-off
> if someone talks about some sort of Realization
> experience? 
Fear, plain and simple.

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