Here, let me preface this comment by making an observation. Bankers by nature tend to be a more conservative.
Journalists, more liberal. So, when someone says the media has a liberal bias, that is probably true, but it does not in my opinion preclude balanced reporting. Now, having said that, when I listened to the commentary on public radio after the debate, the commentators echoed what you have said below: Politics is a game of exaggeration and oversimplification and appearances and feelings. And debates exemplify that. As an example of this, they said viewers, could, if they wanted, fact check statements by the participants as the debate went a long. Few do. So, the fact is, that by consensus, Pence came off looking better than Kaine. You can say it's not fair, that it's a reflection of the sad state of the American electorate, but that is the reality. I disagree with the assertion made by Judy, that the tack taken by Kaine was "very, very very clever", brilliant in that accomplished the purpose of eliciting sounds bites from Pence. In doubling down on this assertion she indicates that it was essential for Kaine to do this for Clinton to win the elections. In other words, making Kaine overly aggressive was the only way he could score points in the debate. These sentiments strike me as absurd, or at least misguided, as well as dishonest, and typical of the kind of spin we see on the extremes of campaigns by those trying to make their candidates look better than they might otherwise appear. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesedwuz@...> wrote : I agree with you in a narrow context. That is, if someone were totally oblivious to the issues, or perhaps didn't even speak English, and watched the debate, they might conclude that Pence won the debate, based on his relative composure. But that is all Pence has, the ability to lie with his eyes open, and a tight smile on his face. Only superficially did he win anything, and just like his boss, in the long run, there is nothing there. Politics is necessarily a game of exaggeration and over-simplification, but it has reached cartoonish levels with the GOP candidates - they lie, and you either ignore them and get challenged on not addressing 'the facts', or spend the majority of time refuting the bitter fantasies that they relentlessly dream up. A couple of tar babies. It is grotesque, and brings us all down as a country. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote : All that may be true, and I don't disagree with any of it, but it appeared to most watchers, or at least most pundits that he did not win the debate. Hillary on the other hand seemed poised* when she debated Trump and the results speak for themselves. *of course she prepared arduously. but at the risk of sounding like a bliss ninny, she appeared to be herself, and not operating with an ulterior agenda, which if you buy the scenario put forth by Ann and Judy was the plan with Kaine. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesedwuz@...> wrote : Kaine's performance wasn't all scripted. What I saw was someone who cares deeply for his country, and has great respect and trust in the candidate who has chosen him as running mate. I saw him genuinely a little pissed off at the constant lies and rhetoric leveled at Clinton, by Trump, someone with no experience except in running his mouth. Pence has essentially made a deal with the devil. He enjoys his little perch, preaching to the masses, and riding around in limos. Reminds me of an organ grinder's monkey. He hopes to capitalize on it, and continue giving the country away to his rich friends, safe in his "messiah's" shadow, while castigating those who do not pay obeisance to his biblical hallucinations. What a phony, creepy, fake, with those deep set beady little eyes darting around. He and Trump are the very worst this country has to offer, and anyone can see through this toxic couple, like the con-artists they are. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote : As I said, I did not watch the debate, so was limited to the clips and the post debate commentary which seemed to give the "win" to Pence. However, if, as you speculate, the purpose of the debate on the Clinton side was "capture sound bites" and not really debate the issues, well that sounds pretty strange in itself, and I guess, sorta proves my point. Bring out Kaine with a different agenda than to debate, but rather try to make the opponent make statements for fodder in future campaign ads. And again, if that is the case, then I would have preferred to see a more honest debate, than one with that ulterior motive. But also, according to your analysis below, the reason Pence DID appear to come out the winner was because he WAS himself, with all the lies and misrepresentations. He evidently is comfortable with that, and that came across. Just sayin' ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : I totally disagree with the 'pundits' on who "won" the debate. The only person out there who told the truth and who had hard facts at his disposal (like direct Trump and Pence quotes) was Kaine. He came off a bit awkward at first firing accusations (timing wasn't great) but he got into the rhythm of the thing as the debate went on and was reasonably formidable in his take down or, at least, his confrontation of Pence concerning Trump and his ugly and ignorant rhetoric. I thought Kaine's statement on women having the right to determine what they do with their bodies was strong and as we now all know in the aftermath, much of the way the debate played out was totally planned by the Clinton campaign as a way to capture sound and video clips for their expose spot afterwards to highlight the lies Pence was spewing the entire time. Just because Pence can sit there like some robotic cadaver and speak in this placating kind of marmish tone does not a debate winner make. I can't figure out why this qualifies as making him the winner. He couldn't defend Trump except to shake his head and priss his lips or outright lie. That is hardly a strong defense of his running mate. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote : Remember the nickname they gave Bush, the Smirking Chmip? Pence could easily be the Smirking Sociopath, he lies with such effortlessness and oiliness. Even against video evidence, it's like he's some alternate universe or something. Sal On Oct 5, 2016, at 9:55 AM, olliesedwuz@... mailto:olliesedwuz@... [FairfieldLife] <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: There is a delusional element among the religious right, who fervently believe that Trump is our next MESSIAH, the Great White Hope who will restore righteousness among the wicked. Pence is clearly one of them. "Smirky" Pence, the know-it-all, self-righteous, bible-thumping hypocrite. I enjoyed Kaine, who comes across as sane, capable and tough. The 'debate' was farcical though, with Smirky constantly trotting out lies, and Kaine refuting them - So nothing new from that angle. Rote Republican desperation, and the usual attempt by the only adult in the contest to stay in the domain of reality. Yeah, the Trump Toilet/Pence Paper ticket is one to avoid at all costs. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <authfriend@...> wrote : For those uncertain as to how my last four posts relate to FFL's concerns as a spiritual group: The Trump/Pence ticket is a blatant example of spiritual degradation--lying, cheating, hypocrisy, and sheer recklessness with the welfare of humankind. Anybody who is at all spiritually aware should oppose these candidates with every fiber of their being. Trust me, every fibre of my being is resonating with contempt and an understanding for how hideous the Trump/Pence ticket is. Between the mono-syllabic undertaker and his bloated and corrupt running mate it is a frightening and sickening to behold. My absentee ballot is sitting to the right of me on my desk ready to be mailed and, believe me, it is for Hillary/Kaine - my only regret is my one vote can't be counted as one million.
