--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 7, 2006, at 4:38 PM, a_non_moose_ff wrote: > > > Well, if you mean enlightenment to mean "something good is happening", > > then fine. Its just traditionally the term has been used in specific > > ways. And in recent years some have hijacked the term and used it to > > label almost anything, BUT implying that they mean the same as > > traditional "enlightenment". Its a bit of a charlatan's game is some > > caes, IMO. > > Bottom line: the words for different "states" of enlightenment just > don't exist in English.
Is that the Absolute bottom line? :) > That's why I always insist my enlightenment > has the 100% Vedic tag :-) Is that like laser tag? Your IT! hahahaha ...no seriously...in their correct sense, > the Sanskrit names relating to the different states of consciousness > have a precise meaning. Yes. Language counts. The intellect gets mushy when using imprecise language. > That's not to say everyone needs to parrot > out the same description, everyone's different. Specific descriptors and attributes are good. And may or may not exactly correspond to broader labels (jivan mukti, etc). But maybe there are many paths AND many moutain tops. Not just one. For example, using your earlier point, if one just has repeated samadhi, and no specific techniques on vasanas, then the "products" will be different -- as the processes are different. As the LBS-sphere might say. Process predisposes product. > IME the vast majority of people claiming "enlightenment", in Vedantic terms, Maybe don't know much sansrit or much of tradtional definitions. So it can, at times, get to be a bit of a crock. Crock pots. > have had a taste of the Self. "Self-recognition". Grokked the > View. Yes. That happened on my day of initiation. Everyone gets a taste from the beginning. How many have had this experience? "Oh see all the hands, almost everyone. Very Good" > It doesn't mean we've carried the View, have gained confidence in the > View or are established in it. Yes. For me its a profound point. One can "understand" that "I" and mind are not the same. But until a REAL de-coupling from the products of "ones" mind occur, its not a living reality. If one claims or lives a strong pattern of ownership with their thoughts, ideas (and posts), and feel a strong sense that THEIR ideas are inherently correct just because "they" had them, then they are still identifying with the mind. If being right about a topic of disccussion is important, as opposed to seeking out what is true -- from whosever mind it springs -- one is still identifying with the mind. Even all the while one may have the View "I am not the mind". A further "test" is laugheter at "ones" own thoughts. If at least 50% of the thoughts that arise in "ones" mind don't seem hilariously inconsistent and full of errors, then one is identifying with the mind. And taking oneself way to seriously. One particular poster, a bit infrquent of late, brings me great pleasure and laughter. He always talks at great length about enlightenment and proclaims his enlightenment, and yet is almost anal in his defense of any and all of HIS ideas -- and appears genuinely threatened, or at least grieved, that anyone challenges them, even slightly. Its a beautiful lesson to watch unfold. Its like he has written a great play, and agreed to star in it, to help "reflect" a lesson us, to see our own foibles and attachments in our own "mind products" as great or as weak as such attachments may still be. And he can't ever seem to laugh at himself. > If we can rest in the View for long > enough, signs manifest. Are they neon? or LED signs? > It's precisely because these signs aren't > mentioned, it's natural to wonder. We just don't want to mess your mind up with envy :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
