--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > The old addage by Nietzsche, "Power corrupts and
> > > absolute power corrupts absolutely." I wonder how many
> > > of those who abuse their power by using others to
> > > gratify their own desires start out that way? Perhaps
> > > the temptation is so great and the resistance so low 
> > > by the "object' that it is near impossible to resist.
> > 
> > ****
> > Irmeli:This is most certainly part of the truth. But it doesn't 
> > explain why the abusers often resort to very tricky 
> > manipulations and lies in order to get what they want? 
> 
> Barry:You haven't specified any examples of what you consider
> "tricky manipulations."  Please do so.

Irmeli:This thread started with an aricle "Sex for Salvation", where
the bishop promised salvation for the woman if she had sex with him.
He also told her that the rules against adultery are for ordinary
people only, he, and she with him, will be above those rules. I cannot
believe that the bishop had ever done any serious self-examination or
introspection on these claims. He was using these claims to get want
he wanted to justify himself his actions.
 
> >Irmeli: In spite of their positions the abuse is
> > usually not easily done with open cards. 
> 
>Barry: In a spiritual context, I'm going to have to disagree 
> with you. In almost every case I've ever seen of abuse 
> of power by someone in a position of authority in a 
> spiritual context, they really didn't have to work
> very hard to "deceive" anyone. The victims were lining
> up right and left, ready and willing to be fleeced,
> because their own desires were being pandered to.
> 
> For example, if you delve into cases of a spiritual 
> teacher sleeping with a student, in almost *every* 
> case what you'll find -- in addition to a teacher who 
> couldn't keep his dick in his pants -- is a student 
> who felt flattered at being seduced or actively par-
> ticipated in the seduction because it makes her feel 
> more "special."  The teacher may be telling the
> student a few lies to get into her pants, but the 
> student in most cases *wants* to hear those lies. It's
> a cooperative effort, a symbiosis of mutual deception.
> 

Irmeli:With open cards I mean not trying to hide the relationship from
others. With open cards I understand also the bishop not trying to act
a role of a pious guide and a loyal husband, when he is not.
But I'm with you with the understanding that the woman is a co-creator
of the situation. I just expect the leader and teacher to behave in a
more responsible way than the student. If the other way around, the
woman should be in the leading position.

> > Irmeli:It is not just a candy you can take almost by mistake, 
> > when your attention is somewhere else. Lot's of planning, 
> > hiding and lies are needed. 
> 
>Barry: Again, I disagree completely. I think this is just an
> attempt to make the teachers the bad guys and the 
> students the poor, innocent victims. I would suggest
> that in many if not most cases the "victim" was per-
> fectly happy to be lied to as long as they felt more
> special than people outside the group or than other
> students within the group.  It's just human nature,
> and teachers merely take advantage of it.
>

Irmeli:I agree fully with this. The main problem here is that the
teacher pretends himself to be capable of acting from a higher moral
level. His getting to his high position has probably become possible
through this pretending and lying.
This pretension must have become an established habit much before he
got to the position of a bishop. It is not just that power corrupts.
Also corrupted people often get into important positions using
corruption and lies as they climb ladders







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