--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], doctor_gabby_savy 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], doctor_gabby_savy 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > You above clarified that in your view that "both" points of
> > > > reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same.
> > > 
> > > I don't even know if the former frame of reference
> > > is Tropical. 
> > 
> > Ok, you said before they were both tropical.
> 
> Nope, didn't.  You misunderstood what I was talking
> about.
> 
> > > The thing is that the two frames of
> > > reference are different in an entirely different way
> > > than the Tropical/Sidereal frames of reference are
> > > different.  Or to put it another way, Tropical/Sidereal
> > > are two different ways of measuring the same thing;
> > > but what you're measuring when you want to know where
> > > the vernal equinox occurs in 13,000 years is something
> > > else entirely.
> > 
> > OK, in your view,what is it?
> > 
> > If you can't clearly explain it, it might be becasue your thinking
> > is not clear on this topic.
> 
> What I'm *very* clear on is that spring doesn't end up
> coming in September 13,000 years hence.  

And you know this to be true? And how do know this to be true? 
You have posted a lot but never explained. Its like a priori.



>What I'm not
> clear on is how to explain your muddle  

My muddle? What part dont you get? 

Are you sure its "my muddle" and not your muddled understanding of
what "precession of the equinox", "sideral" and "tropical" really
mean. You just said you don't know if "the above" is tropical or not.
Yet if you had a clear understanding of what tropical is, you would
not be muddled.

>to you so that
> you can correct your model.

My visual model? You can't even figure that out? My, my. This explains
a lot.








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