Judy, no one cares what I think of TM except the kind person who asked
me about my experiences.  I was expressing my personal opinion.

The verb transcending, combines all the parts of the TM process that
Spraig was so quick to add, including the mechanics of stress release
theory.  If I had used the phrase "the state of transcendence", your
point would have more merit.  But in a group of experienced
meditators, my use was completely valid. Everyone knew what I was
talking about including you and Spraig.  Sometimes the verb
"transcending" is used to describe the state of transcendent.  But in
my discussion of my own experiences, I am not using it that way. I was
discussing my choice to drop the whole practice of TM with people
already familiar with the practice.  

The original quotes:

"As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
overrated as a valuable experience. "

Get out your bubble diagrams here and follow along Judy and Spraig.

And the next time I use the term:

"How could so many people drop
the practice if transcending was all that?"

Judy and Spraig, want to take my use out of context, to make it look
like I didn't memorize and get tested on the elementary point they are
bringing up.

So if you want to assert the position that the term "transcending" is
never used as a description of the whole meditation process, please go
ahead.  I would enjoy that.

Now here is my explanation to Spraig:

Me: 'OK. I thought you were joking. Transcending is the cornorstone of
MMY's program. It is the single most important part of his teaching.
It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all the laws
of nature. It is going to the highest first. It is watering the root
so you can enjoy the fruit. It is pulling back the bow so you can let
the arrow of activity fly. It is the rest before activity. It is
capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold mines.

Come on Spraig help me out here. You are a sharp guy. What are you
talking about? MMY considers transcending "Valuable".'

Notice my use of the phrases, "going to the home of all Knowledge", a
clear reference to the whole process.  "Going to the highest first", "
Watering the root", "pulling back the bow", "capturing the fort".  All
these examples that make it clear what I was talking about, the whole
process of TM.  Did you guys sincerely miss all that?  Or are you
trying to bust my balls because you can't accept that someone can
value this experience so differently?


And the full first post to avoid the Judy trick of claiming selective
quotes:


I enjoyed the experience of flying for the ten years I did it, and TM
for 15 years. Once I shifted my view of its value, I never desired
the experience again. I think the experience's value is not as
"self-evident" as some claim. Maybe the belief system has to support
it. Otherwise it just seems odd, and not an experience I would seek
out these days. As far as it benefit, that I no longer buy. I think
it is sort of a mini epileptic fit. Not too dangerous probably, but
not the greatest experience ever. I don't see people who have kept
it up as special in any way I can detect. By now it really should
have produced more of the claimed benefits in people practicing so
long. In the old days we would joke that without TM a person might be
even worse! That claim is getting hollower and hollower each decade.

As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
overrated as a valuable experience. Relaxation seems necessary in my
life in much smaller doses now that I don't do a program. The biggest
wellbeing booster for me is exercise. That experience seems to give
me all the mental clarity I was seeking with TM with the added benefit
of giving me much more energy. All that eyes closed time of the
program seems to sap people's energy despite the claims. I don't hang
out with anyone who needs a nap in the afternoon. (anyone with kids
excluded!) It is just something that people get used to I think. It
took me a few days to get over the need for program, then I just never
considered the need for more rest after sleeping, or in the afternoon.
There are too many activities that give me joy and help me grow. I
have become the busy businessman of the checking notes and wouldn't
have it any other way!

I always knew that most people drop TM after practicing it. At the DC
center we got a big wake-up call when we tried to contact the 10,000
people who had been initiated at the center. I don't remember the
numbers but it shocked us at the time. How could so many people drop
the practice if transcending was all that? Posting on this group has
made me wonder how many people keep up with the sidhi program. Even
that level of interaction doesn't seem to be self-evidently positive
enough to keep people doing it.

So we are all left with our personal choices. People on this group
are pretty entertaining. Most of the people I seem to get along with
best have moved on from TM. The TM link is just a common bond so we
can goof on the movement a little and remember how into we were. For
the people who have continued to enjoy the practice, please don't take
my words of my experience as insulting to your own. I know how
limited my view of what you may need in your life is. If you enjoy
flying, I'm glad you found something in this world to enjoy. I hope
you can see beyond the fact that I have left it behind.

TM was an amazing ride, and although in a perfect world, I might not
want to have hung with it so long, I value my experiences from my
past. I am not a spiritual person so my analysis has no bearing on
people who continue on a path of self or God realization. That is a
goal that I understand and respect, but I know it is not for me.

Thanks for asking a question that helped me reflect on this. I would
like to hear your experiences if you wouldn't mind sharing them.





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.
> > > > Whatever distinction you are making has no relevance to my life 
> > > > or my point. 
> > > > It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
> > > > understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to 
> > > > believe that, I couldn't care less. 
> > > 
> > > Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack ("shooting
> > > the messenger") instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
> > > 
> > > Such integrity!
> > 
> > Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
> > compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
> > this statement and its "defender of the TM faith"
> > author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
> > zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
> > integrity -- on the line.
> > 
> > Interesting comparison, eh?
> 
> Notice Barry does not compare *Curtis's* state
> of consciousness, compassion, courage, and just
> plain humanity--not to mention his willingness
> to put his own beliefs and integrity on the line--
> to the Israeli TMers.  IOKIFAAT.
> 
> And of course there's no consideration of the
> context.  Curtis questioned the value of the 
> "experience of transcending," suggesting that
> it's been vastly overrated, when, as a former
> TM teacher, he ought to know--as Lawson pointed
> out--that no experience during TM is of any
> greater value than any other, including random
> thoughts.
> 
> That *does* suggest that Curtis was not
> meditating properly, if he thought there was
> supposed to be great value in the experience
> of transcending.
> 
> This error, uncorrected, might well have
> served to discourage folks who would otherwise
> have been in a position at some point to
> demonstrate their courage and humanity by
> joining a group practicing the TM-Sidhis in a
> war zone.
>







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