--- In [email protected], Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Aug 27, 2006, at 9:07 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], Sal Sunshine <salsunshine@> > > wrote: > >> > >> On Aug 27, 2006, at 2:29 AM, authfriend wrote: > >>> > >>> P.S.: Notice, once again, that Barry has conflated > >>> "What MMY sez..." (or in this case, "What MMY > >>> may have meant...") with "What MMY sez is true." > >> > >>> It's really a very obvious distinction, but Barry > >> simply cannot seem to make it. > >> > >> OK, Judy so then you think MMY goes around stating things > >> he thinks are *lies*? > > > > I don't pretend to know whether he does, actually, > > but that has nothing to do with the point I was > > making. "Is true" in my formulation refers to what > > the person quoting MMY believes, not what MMY > > believes. It's likely that someone who believes > > what MMY says is true also assumes that MMY believes > > it, but that's beside the point. > > OK... > > >> The distinction may be obvious, but I guess I don't quite > >> understand. You've said this now so many times I'd like to > >> know what it is you're driving at. > > > > It's *so* obvious that I'm not quite sure how to > > make it any clearer. > > > > When a person quotes MMY (or anybody else, for > > that matter), they can (a) simply be reporting > > what he says without offering an opinion about > > whether they believe what he says is true, or > > (b) indicating that they believe what they're > > quoting him as saying is true, or even (c) > > indicating that they believe what they're quoting > > him as saying is *not* true. It depends on the > > context. > > > > Barry and some others here automatically assume > > that when a TMer says "MMY says..." the TMer is > > expressing their belief that whatever they're > > quoting MMY as saying is true. But that, of > > course, isn't necessarily the case. > > > > If it isn't clear from the context (e.g., "MMY > > says X, but that's a load of crap," or "MMY says > > do X, so you'd better start doing X right away"), > > at the very least you'd want to *ask* whether they > > believe what they're quoting is true. They might > > believe it, they might not believe it, they might > > think it was likely, they might think it *wasn't* > > likely, or they might have no earthly idea. And > > in many cases what they think on that issue may > > not even be relevant to the point they're making. > > Judy, you are making distinctions with no visible difference > at all. You're implying that people *may* go around routinely > saying things they may or may not believe, so that invalidates > what Barry (and others) claim MMY said. That's insane.
No, sorry, it's your interpretation of what I said that's insane. I have *no* idea how you could possibly have come up with what you just said on the basis of what I wrote. What I said was that a person may quote someone else without necessarily believing that what the other person said is true. It depends on the context. > *Nobody* in the world goes around appending "and what I > just said I firmly believe to be true," to every statement, > or to any of them for that matter. Absolutely correct, and absolutely irrelevant. We're talking (or I'm talking; apparently you aren't) about quoting someone *else*, and whether person doing the quoting believes what they're quoting to be true. > Most people say what they believe to be true at that point > in time-- unless they are purposely trying to deceive--and > leave it at that. Also absolutely correct, and also absolutely irrelevant. Look, let's make it *real simple*. If I were to say, "George Bush says God tells him what to do," would you automatically assume I believed God tells George Bush what to do? Or would you need some *context* to determine whether that's what I believed? It's what most communication is based on. What you are putting forth basically means > the end of any and all honest communication. > > If this is what you really believe, how to you ever get a conversation > going with anyone? > > Sal > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
