Have been reworking the intro to the Guru Dev webpages, with added quotations http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm I'm hoping to get a better quality image of that photo I linked to.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > <premanandpaul@> wrote: > > > > You might be interested in this photo of Sattyanand in company of > two > > of his fellow-disciples at:- > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/Shantanandji.htm#Narayanand > > Thanks, Paul. I need to keep more abreast of your wonderful web site. > I met Shantanand at the Kumbha Mela in 1974 -- he seemed quite 'self- > contained' although I am not exactly sure how to expand on that. I > gave him a mango and he cleverly flipped it back to me with a big > smile. It was nice. I got some books from him (well, one of his > disciples) and got to see/touch the claw-footed chair that Guru Dev > sat in. That seemed special. The chair and other things I have > forgotten were sitting in a very old van. I wonder who drove the van > in Guru Dev's day. Knowing the condition of Indian roads in that > region, it is difficult to imagine Guru Dev or anyone sitting in that > chair and being driven from place to place. Hopefully he had some > more comfortable means of getting from place to place. > > From the reports I got from people I met who knew him, he was very > open and accessible to just ordinary folks. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > <premanandpaul@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Gerbal, I'm not sure how long Sattyanand spent with Guru > > Dev, > > > it would be nice to get a better idea of where he fits in. I do > get > > > the idea he did talk about the past, I have heard stuff he is > > > supposed to have said which hasn't surfaced on any of the forums. > > > He gave me an advanced technique in Rishikesh, unfortunately I > > never > > > thought to interview him. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > > > <premanandpaul@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Turquoise, you name Sattyanand as being the source of the > quote > > > > about > > > > > MMY being told to go and meditate, and not to teach. > > > > > Did you hear this from Sattyanand himself or from someone > else? > > > > > Can you remember anything else that was said? > > > > > > > > Paul, I know your post isn't directed at me, but I got to spend > > > some > > > > private time with Sattyanand in Canada and again at Rishikesh. > He > > > > went into great detail, once, about the various phases through > > > which > > > > the "night" technique had gone. While it was interesting, I > also, > > > > later, learned from Richard Scott's book (? Transcendental > > > > Misconceptions?, I'm no longer sure of Richard's title) that > the > > > > night technique he got from Sattyanand was different in some > > > respect > > > > from the one I got from Sattyanand. Richard and I were friends > > and > > > > got our night techniques on the same course, but at > > > > different "sittings". There were also many complaints about > > > > Sattyanand not knowing "The Teaching" as well as he should > have: > > > > which, I guess translates as "we big egoed Initiators know The > > > > Teching better than Sattyanand". -- Sattyanand had a very > casual > > > way > > > > of going about things as if, possibly, he had been told how to > > > teach > > > > or told what to teach but had never gone through the structured > > > > process other TM teachers had gone through. He kind of gave the > > > > impression of winging it. > > > > > > > > I would not be at all surprised to discover that Turquoise B > had > > > very > > > > accurately quoted Sattyanand. -- I'm still searching for T's > > > response > > > > to your question, so I hope I haven't been repetitive or > > something > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > As usual when I post an honest, heartfelt, and > > > > > > *non*-putdown opinion of Maharishi, one of the > > > > > > terribly attached TBs reacts to it as if it was > > > > > > a putdown (not true), and as if she were feeling > > > > > > terribly threatened by the opinion itself (true). > > > > > > > > > > > > Allow me to clarify, for those who are less anal > > > > > > retentive about the things they believe. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past on this forum, we have discussed > > > > > > whether it would really *matter* to people with > > > > > > regard to the benefits they have received from > > > > > > TM if Maharishi had, in fact, had sex with a > > > > > > bunch of his female students. The general > > > > > > consensus was No, it wouldn't matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why then are so many people so attached to the > > > > > > idea that he is enlightened? > > > > > > > > > > > > Would it really *matter* if he wasn't? Would > > > > > > the benefits they have received from practicing > > > > > > TM be any less? By their actions -- overreacting > > > > > > almost any time this subject comes up and getting > > > > > > all defensive about their belief (and that is all > > > > > > it is) that he is enlightened -- one really has > > > > > > to assume that it *would* really matter to them. > > > > > > My question is, Why? > > > > > > > > > > > > My completely honest, no bullshit, pondered-over- > > > > > > for-almost-40-years opinion is that Maharishi is > > > > > > *not* enlightened, and never has been. In all the > > > > > > time I spent in the TM movement, I never once > > > > > > heard him claim that he was, and based on reports > > > > > > here, I don't think he ever has. And yet people > > > > > > persist in believing that he is. Again, why, and > > > > > > more important -- *what difference would it make?*" > > > > > > > > > > > > My perception of Maharishi is of a well-meaning > > > > > > ordinary guy who had the fortunate experience of > > > > > > spending some time around someone who *was* > > > > > > enlightened, was inspired by that experience, > > > > > > and who decided *on his own*, and against the > > > > > > advice of that teacher, to try to spread the > > > > > > inspiration that he felt around, so that other > > > > > > people could feel as inspired as he did. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is *NOT* a putdown; it's a compliment. I > > > > > > *commend* Maharishi for his devotion to this > > > > > > desire to inspire. By contrast, I've worked with > > > > > > several other teachers who periodically threw > > > > > > tantrums and decided to *stop* teaching; Maharishi > > > > > > never has. That, in my book, makes Maharishi far > > > > > > more devoted to his desire to inspire others > > > > > > than the other teachers were. > > > > > > > > > > > > I *do* believe that he went against the direct > > > > > > advice of his own teacher in making this decision > > > > > > to teach, and at his own peril. Spiritual teaching > > > > > > is a perilous task; there are pitfalls and dangers > > > > > > in it, especially for those who still have a strong > > > > > > ego that would be easy prey for these pitfalls and > > > > > > dangers. *That* is what I believe that Guru Dev > > > > > > had in mind when he told Maharishi not to teach, > > > > > > and to follow his *own* example and spend his time > > > > > > in meditation, far away from the teaching process. > > > > > > (This information came from Sattyanand, many years > > > > > > ago.) We are talking, after all, about a guy (Guru > > > > > > Dev) who tried as hard as humanly possible to *avoid* > > > > > > being forced into the position of being a teacher > > > > > > himself. He *understood* the pitfalls and dangers. > > > > > > When they tried to make him the Shankaracharya, he > > > > > > literally disappeared for 21 days, hoping that they > > > > > > would change their minds and choose someone else. > > > > > > I think he had Maharishi's best interests in mind > > > > > > when he made the suggestion that he *not* teach; > > > > > > he must have known that Maharishi was not *ready* > > > > > > to teach, and *would* fall victim to the pitfalls > > > > > > and dangers that awaited him if he chose that path. > > > > > > And I believe that Maharishi did, in fact, fall > > > > > > prey to them. > > > > > > > > > > > > But that doesn't mean that I don't feel gratitude > > > > > > to him for what he taught me. TM, as cobbled-together > > > > > > and untested as it was, helped to start me on a > > > > > > spiritual path, and I am grateful to Maharishi for > > > > > > having made it available. But at the same time, unlike > > > > > > most of the other TM teachers I have met, I have never > > > > > > really considered him enlightened, and still don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > Many people would *like* Maharishi to be enlightened. > > > > > > They have various reasons for why they believe that. > > > > > > I have my own reasons for believing that he is not. > > > > > > My reasons may be correct or they may not, but it > > > > > > doesn't really matter, because it wouldn't *matter* > > > > > > to me whether he was enlightened or not. The benefit > > > > > > for me was in learning a useful beginner's technique > > > > > > of meditation, one that left me open to more inter- > > > > > > esting experiences with other techniques and other > > > > > > traditions. Maharishi didn't need to be enlightened > > > > > > to accomplish that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Haven't you ever considered the possibility that > > > > > > Maharishi coined his "learning to read" analogy (you > > > > > > remember the one -- the kid goes to school and learns > > > > > > "A, B, C" and then goes home and teaches his younger > > > > > > brothers and sisters "A, B, C") to describe *himself*? > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess my questions for the group as a whole are: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. *Is* it important to you to believe that Maharishi > > > > > > was/is enlightened? > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. If so, *why*? > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. What *difference* do you think that would have > > > > > > made in his ability to teach you what you have > > > > > > learned from him? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! 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