I just realized that not only a woman can't be a guru,
a man can not be a guru either. So there.

> --- In [email protected], t3rinity
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In [email protected], t3rinity
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], "Paul
> Mason" 
> <premanandpaul@>
> > > wrote:
> > >  
> > > > 'There is no mention of women being gurus
> anywhere in the 
> shastras. 
> > > > Women cannot be a guru. Gargim, Chudala,
> Sulabha etc. were 
> women who 
> > > > had become yogis and possessed of
> self-knowledge. But it is not 
> met 
> > > > with anywhere that they made their own
> disciples.'
> > 
> > Checking on the story of Chudala and her husband
> Shikhidhvaja, I 
> came
> > across this:
> > 
> > Shikhidhvaja said:
> > "Aha, I have truly been awakened by you, O sage. I
> am freed of
> > foolishness, You are MY GURU; I am YOUR DISCIPLE.
> Pray instruct me 
> in
> > what you know, knowing which one does not grieve."
> > 
> > In the story of Yoga Vasishtha, King Shikhidhvaja
> has given up the
> > kingdom to become a recluse, turning over the
> reigns to his Queen
> > Chudala. Chudala by sheer grace did get awakened
> on hearing the 
> truth
> > of the scriptures about non-attachment. The king
> is not able to 
> accept
> > her advice at first, as she is his wife, a mere
> woman. The queen 
> sees
> > his plights in the forrest with her yogic eye and
> appears to him as 
> a
> > Brahman boy, to whom the King has addressed the
> above. The Queen, in
> > the disguise of the Brahman boy accepts his
> discipleship, by saying:
> > " I shall instruct you if you cherrish my words
> and are in a 
> receptive
> > mood"
> > Yoga Vasishtha VI.87.42
> > 
> > This dierectly contradicts what Guru Dev says.
> Indeed the whole 
> import
> > of the story seems to be, that enlightenment is
> independend of 
> social
> > status. See the pun in the story, that She who is
> enlightened does
> > only get recognized to be so by her husband, after
> she has adopted 
> the
> > shape of a Brahmana. As she continues to instruct
> the King who 
> finally
> > realizes, and comes back to the kingdom. So it is
> also about that 
> the
> > enlightened is qualified to be the teacher
> independend of social
> > status. Besides that, both weren't Brahmanas, they
> were of course
> > Kshatriyas as was Krishna who instructed Arjuna.
> > 
> > Maybe Guru Dev, who certainly knew the story,
> which directly
> > contradicts him, meant to say that women did not
> accept other
> > disciples or more disciples. He did so to make his
> point, and
> > obviously this question was around at his time,
> otherwise no need to
> > address it. I can imagine, that in old times, the
> Sadhus were
> > basically naked, just dressed with a lion cloth,
> it would have been
> > strange for a women to have male disciples. Other
> way round too. So
> > the whole thing was very much a male affair,
> except when wifes were
> > involved. These are totally outdated rules, but
> orthodoxy tries to
> > preserve them, and GD happened to be their main
> representative.
> > 
> > There have been many female teachers in India,
> very famous
> > e.g. Anandamayi Ma, whom Maharishi visited. I know
> that MMY accepted
> > Anandamayi as a teacher, because I once overheard,
> how somebody
> > suggested to him to call a certain person for a
> project, and MMY
> > declined saying that this person was now with
> Anandamayi Ma, which
> > shows, that he respected that this person had
> adopted her as a Guru.
> > 
> > If MMY was not a Guru, there would be no need to
> refer to people 
> with
> > 'other' 'Gurus', that being a reason for rejecting
> dome attendance. 
> It
> > would be enough then, if people practise TM and
> Siddhis at the time 
> of
> > the programme. So Maharishi seems to be Guru to at
> least some. Also,
> > traditionally, Mantra Diksha (Initiation) is
> indicative of adopting 
> a
> > Guru (in the case of MMY, he has delegated this
> task to disciples). 
> In
> > any case, it is clear that MMY broke with the
> rigidity of this
> > tradition, rightly as I think. This is not the
> first time at all,but
> > it just happened to be within this most orthodox
> branch of the
> > Dasanami Sampradaya. 
> > 
> > If you want to accuse MMY of that, do it. But
> > then you show symphathy for the utmost orthodox
> opinion within
> > Hinduism, and prove your agreement to heritary
> caste system. For 
> most
> > people, with the possible exception of Paul, our
> views and
> > appreciation of Guru Dev stem solely from MMY. We
> love him because 
> we
> > see him through the eyes of MMY. Obviously GD was
> a very powerfull
> > yogi, full with the radiance of decades of
> tapasya, but also with 
> very
> > outdated and oldfashioned ideas. I doubt that
> anybody here would be
> > interested in him, if it wasn't for the
> involvement with MMY and TM.
> > If MMY would have been rejected to be a teacher
> out of lack of
> > qualification, I would understand it. But here its
> all about caste 
> and
> > sexism. I have a female guru (who doesn't call
> herself guru btw.) 
> and
> > so has Rick and many others.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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