--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I just realized that not only a woman can't be a guru, > a man can not be a guru either. So there.
Because only SELF can recognize itSELF, and nobody can enlighten you, and there is no other, just ONE which is always realized ? > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity > > <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity > > <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul > > Mason" > > <premanandpaul@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > 'There is no mention of women being gurus > > anywhere in the > > shastras. > > > > > Women cannot be a guru. Gargim, Chudala, > > Sulabha etc. were > > women who > > > > > had become yogis and possessed of > > self-knowledge. But it is not > > met > > > > > with anywhere that they made their own > > disciples.' > > > > > > Checking on the story of Chudala and her husband > > Shikhidhvaja, I > > came > > > across this: > > > > > > Shikhidhvaja said: > > > "Aha, I have truly been awakened by you, O sage. I > > am freed of > > > foolishness, You are MY GURU; I am YOUR DISCIPLE. > > Pray instruct me > > in > > > what you know, knowing which one does not grieve." > > > > > > In the story of Yoga Vasishtha, King Shikhidhvaja > > has given up the > > > kingdom to become a recluse, turning over the > > reigns to his Queen > > > Chudala. Chudala by sheer grace did get awakened > > on hearing the > > truth > > > of the scriptures about non-attachment. The king > > is not able to > > accept > > > her advice at first, as she is his wife, a mere > > woman. The queen > > sees > > > his plights in the forrest with her yogic eye and > > appears to him as > > a > > > Brahman boy, to whom the King has addressed the > > above. The Queen, in > > > the disguise of the Brahman boy accepts his > > discipleship, by saying: > > > " I shall instruct you if you cherrish my words > > and are in a > > receptive > > > mood" > > > Yoga Vasishtha VI.87.42 > > > > > > This dierectly contradicts what Guru Dev says. > > Indeed the whole > > import > > > of the story seems to be, that enlightenment is > > independend of > > social > > > status. See the pun in the story, that She who is > > enlightened does > > > only get recognized to be so by her husband, after > > she has adopted > > the > > > shape of a Brahmana. As she continues to instruct > > the King who > > finally > > > realizes, and comes back to the kingdom. So it is > > also about that > > the > > > enlightened is qualified to be the teacher > > independend of social > > > status. Besides that, both weren't Brahmanas, they > > were of course > > > Kshatriyas as was Krishna who instructed Arjuna. > > > > > > Maybe Guru Dev, who certainly knew the story, > > which directly > > > contradicts him, meant to say that women did not > > accept other > > > disciples or more disciples. He did so to make his > > point, and > > > obviously this question was around at his time, > > otherwise no need to > > > address it. I can imagine, that in old times, the > > Sadhus were > > > basically naked, just dressed with a lion cloth, > > it would have been > > > strange for a women to have male disciples. Other > > way round too. So > > > the whole thing was very much a male affair, > > except when wifes were > > > involved. These are totally outdated rules, but > > orthodoxy tries to > > > preserve them, and GD happened to be their main > > representative. > > > > > > There have been many female teachers in India, > > very famous > > > e.g. Anandamayi Ma, whom Maharishi visited. I know > > that MMY accepted > > > Anandamayi as a teacher, because I once overheard, > > how somebody > > > suggested to him to call a certain person for a > > project, and MMY > > > declined saying that this person was now with > > Anandamayi Ma, which > > > shows, that he respected that this person had > > adopted her as a Guru. > > > > > > If MMY was not a Guru, there would be no need to > > refer to people > > with > > > 'other' 'Gurus', that being a reason for rejecting > > dome attendance. > > It > > > would be enough then, if people practise TM and > > Siddhis at the time > > of > > > the programme. So Maharishi seems to be Guru to at > > least some. Also, > > > traditionally, Mantra Diksha (Initiation) is > > indicative of adopting > > a > > > Guru (in the case of MMY, he has delegated this > > task to disciples). > > In > > > any case, it is clear that MMY broke with the > > rigidity of this > > > tradition, rightly as I think. This is not the > > first time at all,but > > > it just happened to be within this most orthodox > > branch of the > > > Dasanami Sampradaya. > > > > > > If you want to accuse MMY of that, do it. But > > > then you show symphathy for the utmost orthodox > > opinion within > > > Hinduism, and prove your agreement to heritary > > caste system. For > > most > > > people, with the possible exception of Paul, our > > views and > > > appreciation of Guru Dev stem solely from MMY. We > > love him because > > we > > > see him through the eyes of MMY. Obviously GD was > > a very powerfull > > > yogi, full with the radiance of decades of > > tapasya, but also with > > very > > > outdated and oldfashioned ideas. I doubt that > > anybody here would be > > > interested in him, if it wasn't for the > > involvement with MMY and TM. > > > If MMY would have been rejected to be a teacher > > out of lack of > > > qualification, I would understand it. But here its > > all about caste > > and > > > sexism. I have a female guru (who doesn't call > > herself guru btw.) > > and > > > so has Rick and many others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
