--- In [email protected], Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > One of the problems with the TM teaching is this idea that Vedic sages > "cognized" things in a mystical manner whereas other traditions will > tell you it was a trial and error thing. Like others here after many > years of practice I have become very sensitive to the effects of > different mantras, herbs and foods. This is probably the "cognizing" > the sages did. What worked stuck and what didn't went away. Of course > we could get really tin hat and say that the Vedas are what remains of a > teaching that came from another planet and were left by the "seeders" > who bred the human race. An we can't disprove the latter any more than > we can prove the former. :)
Bairitu, Good points. I'm a bigger fan of the "trial by error" theory for ancient humans, than the "God told me" version. > > > curtisdeltablues wrote: > > New Morning, > > > > I had hoped for some thoughtful responses, thanks! I am not doubting > > your subjective experience and those of your friends. I am also not > > saying that everything the Vedic writers believed is wrong. I am > > saying that I have no reason to believe that ancient India was > > specially blessed with complete knowledge of how life works. There > > may be an effect from making offerings to statues and paintings that > > transcends the obvious psychological and sociological effects. These > > are highly testable,falsifiable claims. But I don't see the movement > > offering the slightest interest in testing it. It is presented as a > > given that they have successful yagya knowledge. Judging by how the > > sidhi program was developed by trial and error, I find this claim > > dubious. We should not only have anecdotal evidence for something > > that could be specifically tested. I don't know if yagyas work, or if > > the offerings to the gods of Egypt or Greece work. The world is an > > amazing place. But to assert that ancient India had the best god > > offering program out of all the versions in man's history seems highly > > unlikely. If it works it probably worked in other cultures too. I > > say test them all! > > > > Now till that is done, some people will find it more credible and get > > benefits from yagyas as you have described, and some, like myself, > > will believe that people in the past were wrong about a bunch of > > stuff, so I have to pick my battles of what I want to sort out. For > > me testing the medical use of herbs in traditional cultures should be > > at the top of the testing list. If yagyas prove to be part of our > > growing knowledge about how life works, fantastic. And it will have > > been open minded people like yourself who financed it way ahead of the > > curve. > > > > I think we have more knowledge about the mechanics of how things work > > in the examples you gave, including how TM causes rest. We are not > > living in a world of unknown cause and effects, we know how a bunch of > > stuff works well enough to make specific predictions and benefit from > > those predictions. I think there needs more work on the causality > > claims of yagyas. I'm sure you would welcome it as well. Thanks for > > letting me hear about your experiences with yagyas. > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], new.morning <no_reply@> wrote: > > > >> Curtis, you make many fine points. > >> > >> However, your points don't negate my experience that there is a > >> discernable cause and effect mechanism between a blsck box called a > >> "deva" and me, and/or my yagya doing compatriates. I don't offer proof > >> of yagyas or puja other than my own, and some friends, antecdotal > >> experiences. But its pretty clear to me that if you push this or that > >> button, this or that result occurs. > >> > >> To experience that, to see that, does not require any particular > >> understanding of the black box called "deva". Just as it doesn't > >> require any understanding of modern electronics, computer science,etc > >> to turn on and use a computer. My computer is a black block called PC. > >> I understand its inner nature and characteristics about as well as > >> the black boxes known as "devas". (Though I know how to replace a > >> hard dirve and CPU on the PC black box. I have yet to master that > >> skill on deva black box.) > >> > >> As far as cause and effect of yagyas and pujas, lets use an example > >> familiar to many here. Doing TM puja (cause) creates a real inner > >> stillness, purity, contentment thing (effect). I don't know how, the > >> inner cosmic mechanics, but it does. Switch on light switch, light > >> turns bright. I have experienced that same "thing" in witnessing > >> and/or participating in yagyas. Heavy shakti is how one friend > >> describes that very tangible thing. > >> > >> I have had yagyas done from afar. Not even knowing when they were > >> being done, something really lit up on the inner switchboard during > >> the week various things were being done. > >> > >> But I didn't get those 12 goats the sciptures promised, so I am a bit > >> bummed at that. But someone gave me a really nice wool sweater. When > >> you push some buttons, its not clear precisely what will happen. > >> Though, in my experience, you can hear the "dishwasher" running. > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! 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