--- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jun 12, 2007, at 8:44 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > > > No surprises here, but good to see in print as the lies of Mahesh > > > unravel once again. > > > > And which lies would those be, Vaj? > > The ones exposed here (sorry, accidentally responded to the wrong > email!):
Right, and what are the lies exposed in this post? Please highlight them for us. The fact is, Vaj, the liar is you--again. > > Note: I am forwarding a response from Swami G to the last post. There > is a mixture of comments from me and also the poster. Me = T ( short > for Tanmay which is my spirital name given at diksha), *= the poster, > and G = Swami G: > > T: Coming from my Guru, it was said there is a tradition where a Guru > was > appointed Guru by their Guru. Furthermore, Maharishi did not take full > Sanyas vows, or full vows within the tradition of GuruDev. Maybe he > was a secretary? It is not normal for a Guru to entrust the innermost > knowledge to a secretary. > > * Well here one must say, that neither you nor your Guru are fully > knowledgeable about this tradition. See, its very simple to take one > tradition, where one comes from, and then project on another > tradition, how things ought to be. And its os nice to have email, > yahoo messanger and internet at ones disposal, and using it for > instruction (some more traditioanlly minded people wouldn't do). But > then why doesn't your Guru look up a simple article about the Dasanami > Sampradaya on Wikipedia, and she would know, that in the Saraswati > order only Brahmins can be made Sanyasis? > > G Look i KNOW this type of tradition, i am INITIATED into this type of > tradition - > ok you have read about it . The brother sister ones to here are > Bharati/Giri/Puri > and although i am not within the Saraswati Akh??as have spent time with > Sadhus that are - and trust me in this we have the same basic > practices and > knowledge. All 10 come down from Shakaracharya - All 10 are basically > Shavite. As far as Jyotimath is concerned *Giri* is the name associated > with this Math - Traditionally the Saraswatis are from the south. So > do i > need to read up to find out about this lineage - i Live this lineage. > > * This would resolve her argument. > > G there is no argument - i am commenting from Living within the > Tradition of being a fully initiated Renunicate that has lived not only > here but also within this sect in india. ---- > > * That MMY was GD's secretary, doesn't mean he was just > employed vs being a student. > > G he was a Brahachari - it is known absolutely that he was not > a fully initiated Swami. Undoubtedly he was a student there are many > such nowadays - brahmachari's that are in the process of learning > About the tradition before being formally inducted into it. This is a > common practice. > > * Anyone can see on the youtube video that he was speaking in > front of GD, he is shown on photos of showing the > first president of india around in the Ashram - so don't tell me he > didn't have the trust of GD. I am not saying Swami G is totally wrong, > but I do see that she takes her own path as sort of absolute. > > G My path IS the same tradition as the one he is supposed to be > speaking from. -------- this is what you don't understand. He may > have been showing the first president around the Ashram but > this proves absolutely nothing. The problem is you have only > read about the traditions and haven't actually lived within them. > > T: My Guru said that in her case, there is one > being groomed now for this position, but this is one that has taken > sanyas and it simply is a flow that this person is selected. My Gurus > general comments are this is how a Guru is appointed, not by wanting > to be Guru or declaring ones self to be one. > > * Traditionally this is the case. > > G yes And ? there are no but's - this is the way it has been and > continues to remain. > > * But look at the controversies in many traditions, Hindu and > Buddhist - very often the succession is not clear. > > G look succession was not clear when it came to Guru Dev. That > Math had no heir for over 100 Years. - Guru Dev was choosen and > approved by the other Shankaracharya's. That is true. > > But there is NO way - not ANYWHERE - that a Shankaracharya > is going to appoint a brahmachari that is not even a full swami as > the one to carry on as a Guru. ------ he may give him blessings but > he most assuredly will not appoint him to buck the whole of the > tradition. And what you are putting forth would be exactly that. > > * There maybe contradiory statements of the Guru, like in the > case of Muktananda, > > G Muktananda was also not held up or appointed. i have this > on full reliability with one that was With Nithyananda at his > passing. Nithyananda left his body by will - and was quite > clear as to why. This is another matter though one that i > will not get into at this point in time. > > * or simply missing public instructions, or the > tradition has a certain restrictive format, like in the case of GD. > > G i know what the restrictions are within this tradition. i also know > what mantras are given - i know the in's and outs of this tradition > as far as what the Dasnami traditions do and don't do. --- did you > know that we have a secret language that one initiate Sadhu speaks > to another ? This way we can distinguish who is a Sadhu versus > who has adopted the clothing. There are other secret practices > which are clearly known to true intiated which general public > has no knowledge of. And i am not within liberty to speak of them > openly as this would be a violation of this tradition. > > there is no way a full initiate would be wearing white - and while > he may claim Guru Dev as his Guru, like stated before there is > no way a Full initiate and most certainly a Shakaracharya that > holds the rules of the order intact is going to appoint a > half initiate as a guru. > > * Therefor I think your Gurus assesment is somewhat restrictive. > > G you may think what you want - you may read what you want. > But UNTIL you actually are initiated into one of the 10 Dasanimi > Orders and actually live in india within that tradition there is no > way you can determine fact from made up press. And there is a LOT > of Made Up Press with Mahesh Yogi. Notice it is not Swami > Mahesh-Saraswati > Nor is it Mahesh-Giri , nor Mahesh-Bharati etc. He may claim to be a > part > of these traditions but no way is he initiated into it. And once again > let > it be reminded that the Math in the North is that of Giri. He most > certainly > could have become an full initiate. - > > * I also agree lagely with the critics of MMY's public antics, with > the critics > of many that the focus of the movement shifted to all these side > issues, etc > > G so you can see part of it - Do you REALLY think that ANY Sampradya > would stand behind any of this ? Does it shed a good light on the > Tradition ? > > T: My Guru started a TM yahoo discussion group, there are already some > posts up about this subject: >
