Thanks for your response! And mine below --- In [email protected], "Marek Reavis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Jim, thanks, and here's my pong to your ping.
Ping pong is my favorite game! > You wrote: " not only does Realization feel good, and lead to the > unmistakable conclusion that one owns the seat of all knowledge, but > that this feeling if valid also generates sustainable benefits to the > experiencer, above and beyond the benefits accrued through any other > state of consciousness." > > Okay, a couple of things: you say "if valid" (i.e., the feeling of > owning the seat of all knowledge), which seems to be another way of > asserting the absolute nature of the realization, still based solely > on your experience of it, including whatever the collateral benefits > are. I'm not doubting the authenticity of the "feeling", I'm just > agreeing with Curtis (or at least I think I'm agreeing with Curtis) > that there is no way that that anyone can verify the validity of > anyone else's realization. If there was then we'd all be able to > agree that Maharishi (or you or Rory or Swami G. or whomever) was or > was not Realized. (If there was anyone else to begin with, that is.) I agree completely. When I said "if valid" it is based solely on my own experience, not to judge whether I or anyone else is enlightened from another's point of view. Just that I found that we can all imagine whatever we want but that there are definite signs if one has truly reached the goal, that one can self validate with. Then we can validate only for ourselves where we are. Of course the UC that we incorporate when realized kind of skews the above statement in a delightful way, but that's another discussion. > Secondly, what do feel are the benefits that accrue from realization > other than realization itself? The subjective state *is* the > benefit, isn't it? Well experience of the absolute while pleasant enough by itself only comes into its own, only serves the Divine purpose if realized in activity, so the benefits I am talking about is just to live a life of no effort whatsoever, so that no matter what is going on, it is the place we feel most comfortable. Tangible proof of this, again only for the realized experiencer, is that all desires are fulfilled easily and quickly. > Also, I agree with you that when there is any experience of > awakening, no matter how transitory, the hook would seem to have been > set and the search for its permanency might begin in earnest. At > least that's been many folks' experience, though Curtis at this point > in time, seems to have come to a different conclusion regardless of > how much he has enjoyed (or enjoys) what many would designate > as 'spiritual' experiences or transient awakening. Curtis as far as I can tell, lives his life in the present. There is some conflict resolving East vs Western thought patterns, but who am I to say? I'll leave that to Curtis. > As re your feeling of having been in tune with the universe after > some herbal ingestion, Om Shiva. I don't doubt it one bit, regardless of > whether or not you experienced hand tremors of felt too impaired to > drive; motor skills are not definitive of realization. Moreover, > realization is the definition of ubiquitous; it always surprises me > how we can maintain ignorance for as long as we do. Herbs or prayer > or sex or mantra or a good bowel movement (or, as Maharishi once > said, the smokey exhaust fumes from a bus) are easily enough to tip > the balance to enlightenment or refresh the spirit with a taste of > awakening. Yes, I am making the distinction that a temporary state of Realization may occur for whatever reason. Only that it will fade away if not permanent. btw, the ingestion spoken of earlier rhymes with rogaine too. I saw the possiblity for misinterpretation after posting. > The point that I believe Curtis was making (and the one I feel I'm in > agreement with) is that there is nothing outside of the self that can > be a basis of verification. Exactly right! Thanks for replying. > > Marek > > Thanks > My pleasure! :-)
