Thanks for your thoughtful and poignant post New Morn:
On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:07 PM, new.morning wrote:
--- In [email protected], "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Yes, I have found as long as "I" am claiming C.C., G.C., or U.C.,
> and "Brahman" has not yet claimed "me," I am not fully liberated,
and
> am still attached or bound to experience.
>
> Along these same lines, when you were asking about how we fall into
> ignorance, I find that consciousness *constantly* collapses into the
> particle, to experience the effect of our causative and innocent
> thought as a created being, to enter into the world of our own
> making. If the consciousness *believes* the particle-experience, or
> is caught in a given belief, it identifies with the concreteness of
> the effect and forgets the subtle simplicity of its own cause; it
> finds the bindu to be binding, and experiences the ignorance of the
> particle, or more accurately the particle's ignorance of the freedom
> of ourself, of That-Self.
>
> When we remember "Oh, yes, this particle-experience is not me; it is
> only one infinitesimal particle in the emptiful, Indefinable,
> Ungraspable That-Self," then Brahman remembers itself, and acts as
> the "Cosmic Consciousness" of the particle -- and so on, as
described
> earlier :-)
>
With all due respect, and I mean that earnestly, and I am not
presenting an argument -- but rather simply making some observations.
In college, I took a course titled "Altered States of Consciousness"
taught by Charles Tart -- who had written the definitive text on the
topic at that time -- and was on the map as a key, if not the key
researcher in such. He once commented that he had friends who took
lots of very pure acid every weekend -- and had experiences described
along the way Rory descibes his. And we all nodded -- having had
firneds or peers along the same lines-- many of us coming of age
before LSD was made illegal -- and some vials of very pure stuff was
"widely" available.
But he lamented, that these friends did not seem to benefit any from
such experiences --as real as they seemed to be. They did not change
behaviors, they did not produce deep new insights in their fields,
they did not become more compassionate or reflecting any sort of moral
or ethical growth.
Tying to Danas post, he ask cogently, the same sorts of questions /
observations of Dr Tart (Charlie to many on campus). Jim may be
eternally free -- Rory plays with his particles, Tom has his hardrive
loaded every morning by the cosmic computer. All of which is good and
fine.
But there is nothing either in their descriptions of their states, or
their manifest behavior, insights, cognitive and logical capabilities
etc that appeal much to me, inspire me to do anything to move in the
direction of their attainments. Nor does it fit my evolving view of a
"meaningful" life. See my adjacent post.
These are some great points. I can't help but point out that this is
one reason why it is important to have a spiritual guide or friend
with enough experience to explain meditative experiences and so
students don't look at them as some overly important events or
states. The most important thing one can do in even the most profound
meditative experiences is to remain in equanimity. A profound
meditative experience, unless you are using experiences generated for
some specific purposes, should be no different than any other
experience in life. Otherwise you block yourself IMO.
Essentially meditative experiences are a form of purification, but
once they are attached to, made into stories, etc. they cease to have
that function.
