--- In [email protected], "hugheshugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "shempmcgurk" <shempmcgurk@> > wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], Peter <drpetersutphen@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Shemp, why the strong need for Ron to do TM? > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason that I feel "the strong need" (although I > > wouldn't use those words myself) for Rick Archer to do TM: for > years > > they preached that very thing to not hundreds but thousands of > > people. And here they are abandoning it. > > > > I find that hypocritical. Practise what you preach. > > > > I am irked that people like Ron and Rick abandon TM when they > weren't > > doing it properly (see my last post on this in response to Ron). > > They both had adopted Maharishi Mahesh Yogi as their personal guru > > and had somehow mixed this up with the TM Program practise, got > > disillusioned with that guru, and abandoned TM. > > > > Gurus have nothing to do with the TM Program. You'll told that > > implicitly in the first 5 minutes of the first step of the 7-step > TM > > Program (the into lecture) when the instructor said: TM is neither > a > > religion or a philosophy. > > > > I say: first do TM properly, THEN decide whether or not it works > > properly, THEN quit doing it, THEN tell us all the problems it > > created for you. Until then, shut the fuck up. > > > > But don't stand there after being a spokeman for something for > > decades in which you instructed people to do something a certain > way > > and then abandon that very practise which you weren't even doing > the > > correct way. > > > > What does you mean "the correct way"? Surely sitting down twice a day > and doing the prog is doing it the "right way" regardless of whether > you've adopted a guru relationship or not.
Yes, if we are referring to the TM Technique; no, if we are referring to the TM Program. These are two completely separate things. The latter includes the former; the former does NOT include the latter. One can be doing the TM Technique completely correctly yet not be doing the TM Program correctly. I contend that 99% of Westerners (at least those whom I have observed and have known...and that includes Ron and Rick) that are in or have been in the TMO did NOT of do NOT do the TM Program properly. They abandoned the very principles upon which the TM Program was based and their very existence and involvement IN the TMO is proof of that. The TM Program means sitting down twice a day and doing the TM Technique as instructed and then for the rest of the day going about your business ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN TRADITION, DESIRES, AND COMMON SENSE. Hooking up with a guru IS NOT REQUIRED OR ASKED FOR in order for the TM Program to work. Sure, if you want to accept a personal guru, such as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, as your personal guru and join the TM organisation as your chosen "activity" phase of the TM Program by all means do it. BUT THAT IS YOUR FREE CHOICE AND THE NUTTY THINGS THAT MMY AND THE TMO ARE INVOLVED IN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TM PROGRAM...that was YOUR choice and if you made that choice because you believed it would somehow give you a short cut to enlightenment then you weren't genuine in your choice of activity and therefore not doing the TM Program properly because the TM Program's activity phase is for any kind of activity GENUINELY CHOSEN AND IN ACCORD WITH YOUR TRADITION, NOT SOME GURU FROM SOME HELL-HOLE IN CALCUTTA OR OTHER LOCALE IN INDIA. You fooled yourself and lied to yourself by wrongly choosing an activity NOT in accord with the instructions of the TM Program. > > I don't remember being told that I couldn't have MMY as a guru, quite > the opposite in fact. It's a common belief that the fastest way to > enlightenment is by obeying the guru's every word. Ah! "it's common belief...". That's where you failed, my friend. That's where you went off the path. No, there is NO guru needed in the TM Program and I defy you to show my where it was ever said that it was. That's something you adopted yourself when you joined the cult. And, indeed, YOU were the one who made it a cult by making MMY your guru and in doing so went off the program (not to mention became a hypocrite if you were then going out to do intro lectures and telling the listeners the exact opposite). You superimposed something you claim is a "common belief" on to the TM Program. That's YOUR fault, not the TM Program's fault. You mixed up a teaching called Bhakti Yoga with TM and you shouldn't have done that. Of course, it's okay to enter into a guru/disciple relationship (i.e. Bhakti Yoga) if that is your genuinely chosen type of activity for the activity phase of the TM Program but from what you write above, that wasn't the true reason you CHOSE this activity for yourself: you chose it as a short cut to enlightenment...you chose it because you thought it superior to being, say, a garbageman or a school teacher for your activity phase. You erred. Boy, no wonder you're upset at the TMO and MMY. Did you spend two decades of your life off the program doing an activity you thought was part of the TM Program? Well, who's to blame for that? Who's to blame if you didn't follow the very simple instructions given to you in the first five minutes of the first step of the 7-step program to learn TM? Don't blame the Maharishi. Hey, he covered himself. He provided you his disclaimer that TM isn't a religion or a philosophy right up front. If you chose to ignore it, that's YOUR fault, not his. Maharishi is a businessman. And like any astute businessman, he wants to minimize costs of his operation. And what's the best way to do that when it comes to what is probably the most important expense of doing business in his industry...LABOR? Why, you have a policy in which you pay next to nothing or nothing for the labor the enterprise needs to succeed. And he's got a great formula for that and he suckered in types like you who worked for next to nothing for decades for him. More power to him, less power to suckers like you. But don't blame TM or MMY if you fell for it. I have no sympathy for people who invest their life savings on get-rich-quick schemes and then lose everything in it. They got into it because they ignored common sense and wanted something for nothing and thought they hit upon a short cut...and then they got burnt. I feel the same way for cultists who join the TMO and follow MMY for all the wrong reasons, which you apparently did. Maharishi put out his disclaimer for all to hear and read. You ignored it and got burnt. Don't blame him; blame yourself. Ha ha ha! Sucker! > It's actively > encouraged, the whole point of the teacher "recertification > programme" and "global citizens of world peace" was to get a bunch of > people who would obey MMY without question. > > Where would the TMO be if everyone thought like you and me? It needs > it's Bevans and Hagelins to survive. > > I don't blame people for giving it up once they'd realised how crap > it was all becoming, probably didn't want any reminder at all. >
