X-Comment-To: Axel C. Frinke
Hi!
21-���-2002 01:57 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Axel C. Frinke) wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
AB>> As stated by Matthias, DR-DOS assigns for code pages with euro sign
AB>> some very big values.
ACF> I think I heard about this, too. But is there an official DR-DOS
ACF> release with such codepages?
Ask Matthias for details. :)
AF>>> Codepage numbers above 16383 would be nightmare!
AB>> Why?
ACF> Well, with the assumption that all codepage IDs would not take more
ACF> than 10 bits, there would be 6 remaining bits to denote variations of
[...]
Please, don't make such silly suggestions and implementations. Making
full featured lookup table may be _slightly_ more complicated, but then
later this will not crash your (and our) head when limits will be exhausted.
AF>>> lot of codepages without any official IDs. The most important of them
AF>>> is KOI8-R, which should be supported as well. (Arkady, do you agree?)
AB>> No.
ACF> What a pity.
:)
AB>> See the difference: under Windows you have one system codepage (to be
AB>> precise: two with so called "OEM") and may use any fonts simultaneously.
AB>> This is how was added support for KOI8-R in Netscape Navigator before it
AB>> begins a _real_ internationalized program.
ACF> Well, as it goes for me, I would likely have support for ISO-Latin-1
ACF> under DOS, this would spare me much conversion work for my emails.
But then you lost possibility to see all other texts in your "normal"
codapage and screen outputs (including pseudographics, which used to "draw"
windows) of other program (including cnversion program itself).
ACF> I thought you would feel similar.
No. I "feel" that support for conversion tables should be built-in into
communication program. Else you get a lot of disturbance with them. Like us,
for example, until conversion tables was builted into Navigator - without
this there was required to install additional fonts (and there was no good
KOI8.TTF fonts with smooth drawing!) and there was required to permamently
switch between fonts.
BTW, my mail reader support all (different!) cyrillic charsets - DOS
866, Windows 1251, ISO and Mac and I have no troubles to read them inside
system CP866.
AB>> Under DOS you have one system codepage and you _can't_ have other
AB>> simultaneous fonts [for different code pages]. This is nature of text modes,
AB>> only some _applications_ may support in graphics mode some different fonts.
ACF> I don't understand this. Can't you use CHCP to switch between
ACF> codepages?
After CHCP I lost possibility to view all other texts (which stored in
CP866) and pseudgraphics (for example, in VC). This will be especially
annoying for programs with cyrillic interface.
AB>> On the other side, KOI8-R never used in DOS as base codepage, although
ACF> This is no reason against.
There _are_ reasons. For example - missing pseudographics at positions,
where defined by IBM. Do you know, that VGA adapter will try to fill 9-bit
position between charactres from C0-Df range (unless you turn this off)?
This is required to make solid lines and shapes. And this range is not
reprogrammable.
ACF> You know, there was a time where Internet was never used before.
Yes. And there was times, when we was tortured by three different DOS
competing codepages, which can't coexist in DOS simultaneously. Moreover,
even two different used codepages (DOS and Windows) makes a lot of
disturbance for us - especially with American programs, which don't (wish
to) know about (1) existance of second half of ASCII8 table, nor (2) about
possibility to coexist more than one charset. Even targeted for
international usage Netscape Navigator was very worse in this!
ACF> Nowadays many people use it in spite. ;-)
?
AB>> beside ALT (CP866) codepage there was three other - MAIN, BULGAR and GOST.
AB>> KOI8-R used only as commincation base, so under DOS you should only have
AB>> translation tables in communication programs.
ACF> Well, I don't know whether these codepages contain important
ACF> characters which are not contained in KOI8-R.
But they all have cyrillic characters at different positions.
AB>> Conclusion: under DOS may/should used only CP866. Adding support for
AB>> other codepages (even for Windows CP1251) have no sense - at least, because
AB>> they not contain pseudographic characters.
ACF> Well, I confess: you have more knowledge about this topic as I have.
:)
21-���-2002 11:52 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Oleg Deribas) wrote to "Axel C.
Frinke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
AF>>>> lot of codepages without any official IDs. The most important of them
AF>>>> is KOI8-R, which should be supported as well. (Arkady, do you agree?)
OD> I don't know is it official or not, but KOI8-R have it's own codepage
OD> number. In IBM OS/2 it is known as CP878.
Yes, you right. I forget that KOI8-R have its CP number - I confuse it
with KOI8-U, which have no CP number (I consult about this for Henrique).
AB>>> BTW, to complicate case the more, there is another KOI8 - KOI8-U
AB>>> (Ukrainian KOI8). You may see the differences with KOI8-R in RFC2319.
OD> And there is official Ukrainian DOS codepage - CP1125. It is similar
OD> to Russian CP866, but contains all Ukrainian characters.
If under Ukrainian characters you mean `Ee' like characters (reverse
for 31th cyrillic charcter) and `Ii' with double dots at upper, then they
already in CP866.
OD> BTW, in Epson printers CP1125 called CP866-Ukr for some reason ;)
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