RE: anyone got advice for me tonight? urgent!

[catatonya]

The gray tabby has died.  The solid gray seems to be in good shape.  The kitten that died did poop several times which I took as a good sign.........

 

The living gray kitten seems to be doing ok.  He will nurse, and he has urinated, but that's all so far.

 

I read on a website to massage the area before and after feeding.

 

I'm going to take the little gray kitten to bed with me tonight and see how it goes.  I don't want to leave him by himself since he lost his littermate.

 

Thank you everyone.  I hate just about everyone except people like you who are on this list.  :(

 

t

Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I have absolutely no experience with kittens that young but isn’t there also something about sort of ‘massaging’ their rear so that they eliminate—its something mom cat does…

 

Anything I’ve ever read about real young kittens suggests replicating what mother would do—she’d be nuzzled up against them, moving them around when she felt like moving, feeding on demand and using her body to keep them warm.  They stay close to mom to hear that heartbeat and get the comfort.  So, making a pouch and holding next to you can’t possibly hurt, it seems to me. 

 

Chris

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 1:16 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: anyone got advice for me tonight? urgent!

 

I would feed them more often than that esp since you fear that they were abandoned for a while.  Don't stress out if they refuse to eat each time, but do offer it to them.  I'm so glad the one is seeming to feel better.  I can understand why they suggest not "over handling" them, but they are writing this for, pardon me, but the majority of idiots out there that would be handling them differently than you.  I don't expect that you'd be manipulating them and keeping them awake.  They will sleep just fine next to your body, probably better.  I understand you concern about disease, you do, after all, have an felv kitty in the house, but unless you are allowing them to crawl around with everyone else, they should be fine under your t-shirt.  I don't know, they've already been through so much, if you can give them some warmth and a feeling of security, I think it's worth the risk.  I guess there's the possibility that they are carrying something that might endanger your guys, but I really think if they had something horrible, like Panluek, they'd be gone already.
Nina

catatonya wrote:

I had been carrying them around and keeping them warm inside my shirt, but one of the websites I read said that I should keep them away from all other cats because they may not have immunity from their mother.

 

I just don't know.  The other cats were in the vacated house.  One of these kittens was on one side of the trash cans and the other was on the other side.  They were not together.  So basically we have no idea if they were being moved in the house, out of the house, or abandoned.

 

Since they are only 2-3 days old and were covered in maggots I would say they had been there a while.  I didn't see the place itself to see if it was a place the cat might have felt comfortable having the kittens in, but I doubt it.  The house has 3 boxers.  (2 were thrown off an overpass July 3rd, and the reason I was at their house was because I was passing out reward fliers for them.)  There are lots of other stray dogs and cats in that area, and those people didn't keep their boxers confined.  So I can't imagine the cat had the kittens there and was just trying to move them in.  There's been a lot of comotion in the area since the incident with the dogs. The people were out putting a fence up today (what a concept!). They said they kept hearing crying and found the 2 I took.  The tips of their ears are a little bloody suggesting flies biting them and hence the maggots.

 

I just don't know.  NO ONE is going to take in that mother cat and the rest of those babies.  And there's no way I can either.  DD (my positive) is stressing out just knowing these kittens are here.  She's overgrooming way more than normal and I just dosed her a pred.

 

I think I'm going to go put some honey on the sick ones gums.  He does seem to be a little better.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  I also read that I shouldn't bother them (pick them up, etc.....) too much between feedings for the first week because they are so weak at this age they need to sleep.

 

I started feeding them every 2 hours, but read on several sites NOT to feed that frequently...........I've gone to 3 now.

 

always something................

 

thanks for the advice.  I'm going to go check on them now.

 

t

Nina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Tonya,
Not a good sign that these two kittens were separated from the mother and other babies.  You know what that could mean, they may be weak and she decided to let them go to try and save her energy and milk for the others.  It may also have meant she was in the process of moving them and hadn't gotten back to these two yet.  I have a really good home made kitten formula made from goat's milk that I will send to you off list.  It's better than any powder form because it's fresh.  When I give a kitten light karo to try and stimulate their energy, I put the tiniest amount on my finger, or Qtip and then wipe it on their gums, that way there is no chance of aspirating them.  As far as keeping them warm, esp the one that's getting colder, the best thing to do, if you can, is to keep them under your shirt next to your skin.  They will feel comforted by your warmth and heartbeat, and you will also know immediately if they are in any sort of distress.  While your up and walking around, you can fold a large t-shirt under and secure the "pouch" with safety pins and just carry them around like a momma kangaroo.  Be very careful that the temp of what you have rigged for them is constant and not to hot or cold.  The best thing to do is have a container that's just large enough to afford a space that isn't on the heating pad, or hot water bottle, but is still cushioned.  With kittens this young, I don't know if they'd even be able to move off of it when too hot though.  Bless it girl, I feel for you.  I would guess that the temp should be slightly less than normal body temp, but I'm not sure about this.  They are so young and fragile!  I understand why you would say you probably should have had them pts, and also understand why you couldn't!  You should probably be offering them food every 1/2 hour or so at first, I wouldn't go much more than an hour apart until they are eating consistently.  With two week old kittens, I think it's recommended to feed every two hours.  I could have sworn I had a better website than this one, but there may be some info for you here: http://www.caring4kittens.com/index.html

Blessings and prayers for the babies, you and the ones still out there.  Hopefully momma isn't feral, you catch her ass, and she's healthy enough to care for her kittens.  If she did abandon these two, she might change her mind about caring for them when she's safe, warm and fed.  If you do end up adding them back into her litter, make sure you rub them on the other kittens first to pick up the scent of the rest of them. 

Have you gotten in touch with MC?  I know that she's had lots of experience with kittens.  Hideyo recently took in days old kittens w/o a mom and did really well with them too.  I don't have MC's number, but I do have Hideyo's, I'm sure she wouldn't mind a late night phone call in an emergency.
Prayers for the babies,
Nina

catatonya wrote:

thank you.  I just gave him some sugar water.  I hope that might help.

 

I was very careful, but I don't know if the 'drooling' means I aspirated........... or he's got a uri or what.  :(  i'm going to take his temperature.  I have them in a bathroom with the vent closed and covered.  I have a heating pad on the floor and then a towel and then a litter pan and then another towel and then the kittens and then a towel over them.  I'm going to try to check the temp of that too.

 

both of these kittens way around 3 oz.  Sites I've been looking at say they should be born weighing more than that!

 

They had maggot eggs (not crawling yet) on them......... so they must have been there for a while.  We found the mother and other kittens in an abandoned house but we can't do anything about any of it until tomorrow.  ugh.  The lady that found them is going to break into the house and put the kittens that remain in a basket with a towel and give the mother food and water till we can decide what to do tomorrow.

 

t

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I wouldn't have them euthanized just because they are little. I take
in small kittens all the time.

I don't use KMR. I use Fox Valley. They sell all kinds of milk for
all kinds of animals. Better IMHO than KMR and cheaper.

You have to mail order it though...I keep about a pound of the powder
on hand at all times, but I take in a lot of litters.

http://foxvalleynutrition.com/main/home.asp

Sometimes little kittens just die and there is nothing you can do:(
As I am sure you know mortality among kittens is really high:(. Is the
little one eating? If he won't suck you can feed from a syringe.

Drooling doesn't appear to be a great sign:

http://maxshouse.com/kitten_care.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: catatonya
Date: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:52 pm
Subject: anyone got advice for me tonight? urgent!
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"

> Hey guys,
>
> long story short.......... I am home with 2 (vet said 2-4.......
> I say 2 tops) 2 day old kittens.
>
> Of course it was sunday and i had to go to emergency vet. he
> said they seemed ok for the circumstances and told me to bottle
> feed and keep them warm.
>
> that cost $100
>
> I knew I should just have them euthanized. I know there are no
> homes. I know there are more than the shelter can handle
> etc.......... but I brought them home.
>
> The smaller one will suckle and take the kmr (walmart brand
> recommended by vet. is that really all right??)
>
> The other seems to be drooling from his mouth. Everytime I
> check him he seems colder and colder. I have them on a hot water
> bottles on a towel and have even put it inside a heater. I've put
> them in bed with me.
>
> I don't think he's going to make it.
>
> Any ideas as to why he might be drooling and what I might could do?
>
> tonya
>