---
Hi Brian,
Not having more than one Finale file open at once is a *very* tedious workaround and a real drag on productivity. It's unfortunately necessary for now, but that doesn't make it in any way an acceptable workaround.
Again, I would agree with you that the prompting to save unchanged documents is by itself a minor bug. When combined with the text block bug, however, it becomes a real problem. For instance:
You are working on a set of parts for a woodwind quintet, and you have them all open at once -- either because you don't know about the text block bug, or because you're willing to take the risk because only having one document open at a time is a crappy way to work. Anyway, you extract and open all the parts. You finish working on the Flute part, save changes; move on to the Oboe part, finish that, save changes; go to the Clarinet part, finish it but forget to save changes; switch to the Horn, finish it, save changes. Meanwhile, the text block bug has changed all of your "mp"s in all your open documents to "Copyright � 2004 Really Good Music, Inc." But before you notice this, something else comes up and you need to quit Finale before you start working on the Bassoon part.
When you quit, Finale will ask you if you want to discard changes or not. If not -- usually the safe choice -- it will prompt you to save *every single part*, even though the only part that actually has real, user-created changes in it is the Clarinet part that you forgot to save when you switched windows. But *all* of the parts have been corrupted by the text block bug -- they have *all* had the "mp" expression replaced by the copyright notice. This is not something that will show up in the Undo/Redo lists, but it *is* a saveable change. So if you're not 100% sure if you remembered to save all the parts before switching, you will probably click "Save" for all five parts, just to be sure -- and only later realize you've just saved the messed-up versions with copyright dates where the "mp"s should be.
If Finale actually tracked changes properly, it would only ask you to save the Clarinet part, since that's the only one with stuff in the Undo/Redo list. So, because of the text block bug, that *one* part would have copyright stamps instead of "mp"s, but *all* of the other parts would be safe, because they would remain the way they were when you last saved them.
Hope that's clear.
Regards,
- Darcy
-----
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn NY
On 14 Jun 2004, at 11:01 AM, MacSupport wrote:
Hello,
I am still trying to reproduce the file overwrite bug without success.
There are bugs already written up with specific files that have replaced text blocks, staff names, etc.
I have not had too many reports on this, as people can get around it by simply not having more than one file open at a time (also for your most "severe" bug).
Yes, we know that in 2004, Finale considers opening a document a "dirty" document (thinking it has a change on it). This is documented but has not been addressed at this time (it would be a minor bug).
I hope this helps!
Brian Customer Support Representative MakeMusic!, Inc.
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Introducing Finale 2004. See the new features and purchase for Macintosh (OS 9 and OS X) and Windows at http://www.finalemusic.com/
-----Original Message----- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 5:36 PM To: MacSupport Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Finale] That darned file-overwrite bug FinMac 2003
Hi Brian,
We seem to have conflated a couple of problems here, and I think it's my fault for not being clear enough (and for not changing Chris Smith's original header, which I leave here only for the sake of continuity). I understand that the file-overwrite bug is relatively rare and difficult to reproduce, thus, difficult to solve. (After all, it's only happened to me once.) However, when it *does* happen, the consequences of the bug are so severe (total data loss) that I would hope that if you do uncover any new leads, Coda will devote its full attention to solving the problem. If it happens again I will try to give you detailed information about exactly what I was doing when the problem occurred.
On the other hand, there is the other bug you mentioned, "the same ID number taking over two or more text blocks, or even expressions since Expressions are now somewhat text blocks in 2004 because they are multi-font." I'm assuming this *has* been successfully reproduced in house, because it happens all the time, and I can only hope that more than two people have bothered to report it! This bug, while occasionally bothersome in Fin2002 and Fin2003, has become an absolute meance in Finale 2004 and, and as I said, I really hope you are devoting the time and resources to make sure it gets fixed.
Meanwhile, there is a *third* bug that makes both of the above problems worse -- the fact that Finale will prompt you to save changes even when no changes have been made. Here, I *can* tell you exactly how to reproduce the problem.
Launch Finale. In Program Options -> Save, tell Finale to autosave files every 1 minute. Turn (or leave) "Automatic Music Spacing" and "Automatic Update Layout" off. Create a new, blank document. Save the document and give it a title (for instance, "Test 1.mus"). Do not make any further changes to the document. Wait for the autosave. After the autosave is complete, close "Test 1.mus" Finale will ask you if you want to save changes before closing. There is nothing in the Undo/Redo list. Nothing in the file has changed. It's still completely blank. It's still identical to the file you saved as "Test 1.mus". Finale should only prompt you to save changes if there any changes to save.
As I said, this bug would be merely an annoyance if it didn't make it very easy to accidentally save unwanted changes created by the text block ID bug (which also leaves no trace in the Undo/Redo list).
Hope this helps clarify things,
- Darcy
-----
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn NY
On 10 Jun 2004, at 05:13 PM, MacSupport wrote:
Hello,
I am not sure what more we can do about this right now, as I cannot reproduce it, and do not have definitive steps to be able to try and track it down. There are thousands of other people using Finale, and there have been two people reporting it. Our other beta testers and testing in-house have not produced any bugs that I can find right now in our bug database regarding this file-overwrite anomoly.
I hope this helps!
Brian Customer Support Representative MakeMusic!, Inc.
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Introducing Finale 2004. See the new features and purchase for Macintosh (OS 9 and OS X) and Windows at http://www.finalemusic.com/
-----Original Message----- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 2:48 PM To: MacSupport Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Finale] That darned file-overwrite bug FinMac 2003
Hi Brian,
First -- THANK YOU for confirming that you are aware of the text block/staff name/expressions being overwritten. Hopefully this is something that will be fixed soon.
Next -- I do not have automatic update layout or automatic music
spacing or anything else "automatic" checked. However, I can confirm
that Finale will *always* ask me to save changes to a document that has
been sitting open in the background while I work on another document,
even when no actual changes have been made and nothing shows up in the
undo/redo lists.
This has been the case for some time. Before, it was just an annoyance
-- all it meant was an extra prompt to save "changes" even when there were no changes to be saved. However, in combination with the text
block etc. ID number bug, it becomes a real problem, as it becomes very
easy to unwittingly save a file that has been afflicted with this bug.
- Darcy
-----
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn NY
On 08 Jun 2004, at 03:09 PM, MacSupport wrote:
Hello,
If you have automatic update layout or automatic music spacing checked
while opening the document, you have already made a change to the
document, and therefore Finale asks if you wish to save changes. I do
know there are bugs written up about the staff names, text blocks, etc
being overwritten. This has to do with the same ID number taking over
two or more text blocks, or even expressions since Expressions are now
somewhat text blocks in 2004 because they are multi-font.
I hope this helps!
Brian Customer Support Representative MakeMusic!, Inc.
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Introducing Finale 2004. See the new features and purchase for Macintosh (OS 9 and OS X) and Windows at http://www.finalemusic.com/
-----Original Message----- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 4:25 PM To: MacSupport Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Finale] That darned file-overwrite bug FinMac 2003
Hi Brian,
Hmm. Well I have not had any other users report this.
Christopher Smith has reported this as well -- in fact, my original email quoted his bug report.
It is hard to try and test this without any reproduceable steps, and I am not able to reproduce it randomly when I have several files open (for a limited time, obviously I do not spend my whole day just sitting in front of Finale). Are there any more specific steps you can give a clue to the behavior?
I'm afraid not. The problem will the file name getting overwritten when multiple files are open is (thankfully) more rare than the problem where text blocks, staff names, expressions, etc., get overwritten (surely you can reproduce *that*) -- but it does exist and I suspect the two problems might be somehow related.
Again, I wish I could be more helpful. This bug is rare, but
devastating. All I can suggest is that you address the greater
problem
of unwanted changes bleeding into to currently open documents besides
the one you're working on. You might also look at how Finale tracks
changes to files -- often, Finale will prompt you to "save changes"
when no changes have been made (i.e., there's nothing in the Undo/Redo
lists).
Regards,
- Darcy
-----Original Message----- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:52 PM To: MacSupport Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Finale] That darned file-overwrite bug FinMac 2003
Hi Brian,
I wish I could. All I can tell you is that whenever you have
multiple
documents open simultaneously, there is a risk that one file will
inherit the name of another currently open file -- without the name
in
the menubar changing to reflect this! But when you save the file, it
will save with the new name, overwriting the other file, which will
be
lost forever.
That's bad.
- Darcy
-----
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn NY
On 27 May 2004, at 04:46 PM, MacSupport wrote:
Hello,
Could you please provide some specific steps or a list of possible steps that might cause me to reproduce this issue?
I hope this helps!
Brian Customer Support Representative MakeMusic!, Inc.
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your reply.
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our Technical Support:
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Introducing Finale 2004. See the new features and purchase for
Macintosh (OS 9 and OS X) and Windows at http://www.finalemusic.com/
-----Original Message----- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:53 AM To: MacSupport Subject: Re: [Finale] That darned file-overwrite bug FinMac 2003
Hi Brian,
The problem is not limited to staff names or text blocks -- as Chris
Smith and I describe below, it also happens to *FILE NAMES*, which
is
(to quote James Brown) superbad, since that results in one file
overwriting another without warning.
Regards,
- Darcy
-----
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn NY
On 17 May 2004, at 05:24 PM, MacSupport wrote:
Hello,
Yes I think this is an issue when two text blocks in two different files obtain the SAME identification number. I have not heard any other comments about this, but it seems related only specifically to staff names or text blocks, so editing in speedy entry for example does not produce this issue.
I hope this helps!
Brian Technical Support Representative MakeMusic!, Inc. Coda Music Technologies
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Introducing Finale 2004. See the new features and purchase for Macintosh (OS 9 and OS X) and Windows at <http://www.finalemusic.com/finale/f2k4/>
-----Original Message----- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: MacSupport; Christopher BJ Smith Subject: Re: [Finale] That darned file-overwrite bug FinMac 2003
Hi Chris,
If you switch the file names around, this is pretty much what
happened
to me -- my "Big 1" was overwritten by "Small 2." Fortunately, I
noticed the problem quickly and had a recent backup. However, I
was
using Fin2004 -- I didn't realize the problem existed in previous
versions. So I guess that answers your question about whether this
problem has been fixed. [sigh]
Again, I think this might be related to the problem where when you
make
a change to a text block (or staff name, or pretty much any text
element) in one open document, Finale goes and applies that change
to
*all* open documents. I suspect that, in this case, it's doing
that
with the *filename*. [sigh] I think this bug might be a byproduct
of
the feature which allows you to have plugins apply to "all open
documents." (Maybe Coda could introduce a toggle to turn that off?
I'd gladly give up that feature if it meant I didn't have to worry
about changes in one document bleeding into all the other open
documents.)
At any rate, these are both devastating bugs (or instances of the same bug -- whatever). I know this is difficult to reproduce and therefore difficult to fix, but boy does it ever need fixing. Meanwhile, it's just not safe to have more than one Finale file open at once. [sigh]
- Darcy
-----
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn NY
On 03 May 2004, at 02:26 PM, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
Hi all,
I remember reading a while back about how Finale sometimes
overwrites
a file when more than one file is open. I seem to have been bitten
by
this bug, but I can't reconstruct what I did, as an hour passed
before
I noticed it. What I think happened is this:
I had a score ("Big 1") open I was working on.
I opened another file ("Small 2"), made a small edit, printed it, and closed it.
Went back to working on my (still open) "Big 1" score. The next time I saved it, it saved under the name and location of the OTHER file, overwriting it.
When I later went to open "Small 2", I got my completed "Big 1"
score
instead. The file saved under the name "Big 1" was the version I
last
saved just before I opened the "Small 2" score at around noon, and
so
was incomplete.
Small 2 is gone, gone, gone. When I look to see if I can undo what
I
did in the file called Small 1 (to go back to before the file was
overwritten), the Undo lists are greyed out.
Is this comparable to what others have observed? I don't use
Fin2004
much yet, so I don't know whether this bug is still around, but it
is
definitely there in FinMac2003.
Christopher _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
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