Florence + Michael wrote:
Apparently Brahms did have something to say about women composers. Can anybody give me a serious source for this quote, found in a German musical calendar with no bibliographical references:
"Es wird dann erst eine Komponistin geben, wenn der erste Mann ein Kind zur Welt gebracht hat"
(more or less "There won't be a woman composer until a man gives birth to a child")
Stay with me a moment:
If the above statement about women is, indeed, Brahms, we all know enough to know that it is nonsense. The only reasons there haven't been as many good female composers as male are social.
It would be ridiculous to say "There will never be a great woman composer."
But, is it offensive just to ASK "Name one truly great woman composer" among informed adults? (The answer might be - "Many very good ones, perhaps not a truly great one, depending on your definition - yet.")
But the issue of the faith of a composer is a different subject, because it could be pertinent to the composer's product, and it is fair issue to at least be discussed, or not, without, a person being called offensive for relaying it.
If you read the whole section of the Abell book devoted to his conversation with Brahms and Joachim, you would see that Brahms statement that 'no atheist would ever be a great composer' is in the context of his detailing his description of inspiration, and is consistent with his feeling that in a divine feeling of inspiration he, Brahms, is in fact, in a state of feeling of oneness with the divinity himself. (This is an oversimplification of a lengthy description.) I actually find his description of the process discomforting to my theology, and not in keeping with orthodox Christianity at all. But, since none of us is as great a composer as is Brahms, one should consider seriously his description of such inspiration, even though we may disagree with his faith or religion. (He does say that one must possess all the necessary musical tools, and, for example, discusses one composer quite highly-regarded at the time, Anton Rubinstein, who could write beautiful melodies but did not possess the skill to sustain larger works and whom Brahms knew would be nearly forgotten 50 years hence. [Indeed, I had no idea Rubinstein wrote operas, which were all the rage at the time]. One of the interesting things about the book is Brahms insistence on a 50-year waiting period before its publication so he could speak honestly about the place in history of himself and other composers. In the preface, the older Abell, who had spoken with Brahms as a young man, speaks of a world in 1947 that could now annihilate itself with the new A-bomb.)
I quoted Brahms to spark some intelligent discussion, and to counter David's strange objection to the wording of a request, but not to start hate mail. Again, my mistake was in quoting one line out of context. I did not apologize before but now I do. And I apologize for assuming that attacks on Brahms were attacks on me. (But I was attacked for quoting it.)
But I will not apologize for quoting Brahms on the subject of spirituality and inspiration when asked - I just should have not chosen one inflammatory line. But perhaps David's initial expectorating on the word "spiritual" and his subsequent devaluing the vocabulary on the list was, also, just a bit out of line?
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