On 17 Mar 2010 at 13:52, Darcy James Argue wrote:

> Fascinating -- I know nothing about the "notes inegal" problem but
> your description of it makes it sound very familiar. 

I hear the same "familiarity" whenever I hear y'all despairing over 
swing.

> What's most frustrating about the swing problem, though, is that sure,
> it's an oral tradition, but it's an aural tradition that is *very well
> documented on recordings.* 

This is one case where there's a lot less excuse for those who can't 
swing as opposed to those who can't play notes inegal -- we really 
don't know exactly what it sound like because all we have are written-
down descriptions of how it was to be done (and many of those are 
contradictory).

> And yet people persist in putting that
> horrifying "Swing (two eighths = triplet quarter, triplet eighth)"
> indication on charts -- or worse, actually playing it that way. 

I grew up playing in high school band (percussion) and stage band 
(piano) thinking that's the way it worked, and it wasn't until I was 
an adult and had taken up a stringed instrument that I developed the 
perception necessary to hear the variety of emphasis and duration in 
swing. 

Over my musical lifetime, I've had various levels of "aha!" moments 
where I developed perceptions that were earlier lacking, and that 
then enabled me to appreciate things I'd previously been unable to 
hear. 

My best example of this is one of my earliest (but I've had waves of 
them since):

Back in high school I recall thinking that I was playing Chopin 
almost as well as Artur Rubinstein.

This was, of course, completely ludicrous. I wasn't even close.

But in terms of what *I* heard in Rubinstein's playing, I was doing 
all of it and more!

The number of things I wasn't hearing was huge. Only later on did I 
develop the awareness of all the nuances that allowed me to hear what 
Rubinstein was doing that was well beyond anything I was capable of 
(then or now).

You can't play what you don't hear.

And I think that's the issue with a lot of the players who can't 
swing, whether that be in jazz or French baroque.

> Again, one listen to any pre-1941 Lester Young solo (many of which are
> collected and transcribed here, with commentary from the great Lee
> Konitz:
> http://thebadplus.typepad.com/dothemath/2009/08/1-18-with-lee-k.html)
> ought to be all it takes for anyone to realize (A) that the purported
> 2:1 swing ratio is complete BS, and (B) there is a huge difference in
> rhythmic placement between playing *anticipations* and playing *lines*
> -- there is no one-size-fits all solution. But it's hard enough
> getting student jazz musicians to wrap their heads around this
> distinction -- and if they can't do it, how are you going to get
> classical musicians to do it? 

In playing a stringed instrument, the most important thing of all is 
bow control (at least, so it seems to me). But most of the teaching 
(arguably) is about the left hand (pitch) and bow direction (up or 
down bow), with, I think, insufficient emphasis on bow speed and bow 
division (the amount of bow used for each note -- for instance, in a 
quarter / two eighths passage, theoretically, the quarter note would 
use twice as much bow as each of the 8ths, though it actually is more 
logarithmic, and the quarter uses roughly 4 times the bow (or more) 
as the 8ths). 

My viol teacher often gets undergrad students taking up the viol 
after studying cello or violin for years, but they've never heard a 
thing from any of their teachers about bow division! And they end up 
giving up the viol quickly, since it turns out to be much, much 
harder than they thought (they often imagine they can just pick it up 
and play at a high level because it's just another stringed 
instrument). And that's even before they get to the issues of playing 
musical styles they don't know (their heads explode when they have to 
play in a viol consort, reading polyphonic music in 4/2 -- they can't 
count and they keep getting thrown off by the rhythmic independence 
of the individual lines; and don't get me started on Baroque 
ornamentation, another topic that floors them).

In jazz, I suspect there's a similar issue with tonguing, phrasing 
and breath -- not that these things are not taught, but that they are 
*hard* to execute sensitively, and that those who can't play with 
this level of nuance often lack it because they don't perceive it in 
the models they are listening to. 

Exactly *how* you teach their ears to hear what they don't already 
perceive is a conundrum -- having them listen to good models is not 
going to accomplish much if they can't perceive the desired result in 
the models (or if they their ears shoehorn all swing into the 2:1 
ratio because that's the only model they have in their heads, even 
when there's a huge amount of subtlety and nuance in what they are 
listening to).

-- 
David W. Fenton                    http://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates       http://dfenton.com/DFA/

_______________________________________________
Finale mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Reply via email to