Ray - I'm really interested to see what your hornist friend has to share!
Actually, Brahms DID prefer natural horn, and DID hear his works played on valveless horns - repeatedly. Robert Pascall, (Vice-Chair of the New Complete Brahms Edition) writes, "Brahms preferred the old valveless horn, and could mark notes to be played stopped in case players were tempted to take the easier way." And there's a wealth of performance history in Brahms' presence to verify not only his preference but experience. I think I may have mentioned here in the past Brahms' preference for smaller rather than larger orchestras; on the large-end of performance practice about which we know some details, the Vienna Phil (Brahms' 'hometown' orch) had 78 musicians in 1864, 100 by 1885 - and played each of Brahms' symphonies at least four times during his lifetime. Brahms himself conducted a "festival" performance of the second in Hamburg in 1878 with an orchestra of 113 but his PREFERRED orchestral sound was a smaller one in which the winds wouldn't be overwhelmed by the strings nor forced into doubling. A smaller group in which the sound of his beloved natural horn could more easily dominate; narrow-bore trombones wouldn't have to push to be declarative. And in all cases in which he had an option, he chose small groups: for the premiere of the 1st symphony in 1876, he went with the Karlsruhe: 49 players, natural horns. And he also built a 'special' relationship with the Meiningen Court Orchestra - 49 players, natural horns. There are occasions in which Brahms was offered augmented string sections (in Meiningen, particularly) but refused them, preferring the smaller configuration. Our lately departed Sir Charles Mackerras made a VERY compelling case for adhering to Brahms' stated wishes in his wonderful recordings about a decade ago 'in the style of the original Meiningen performances' with an appropriately-sized Scottish Chamber Orchestra, natural horns included - as well as scrupulous attention paid to interpretive details of performance practice as Brahms noted throughout his lifetime, and in apparently consistent fashion throughout his years. There's a wonderful audio commentary Mackerras offers in interview form as a bonus disc in which he explains the sourcing of his interpretation, and much more. Fascinatin' stuff.... Les Marsden (209) 966-6988 Cell: (559) 708-6027 (Emergency only) 7145 Snyder Creek Road Mariposa, CA 95338-9641 Founding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra Music and Mariposa? Ahhhhh, Paradise!!! Mariposa County Planning Commissioner, District 5 First Vice-President, The Mariposa County Arts Council, Inc. Board Director, The Economic Development Corporation of Mariposa County http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html Marsden Marx Pages: http://tinyurl.com/ygpj7og ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Horton To: [email protected] Cc: Steven Larsen Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] RE: OT: Historical Horn Notation Question (long!) On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Steven Larsen <[email protected]> wrote: 4. Richard Wagner and Richard Strauss are the principal composers to > promulgate the advancement of the horn (Brahms preferred the sound of the > natural horn), I asked a knowledgeable horn-playing friend about your later question (which composers started writing for F horn all the time), and he promised me a copy if an interesting article on Brahms horn writing, so I should have more to add. I'll just say that I have been told that, even though Brahms wrote parts that were playable on natural horn, he probably never heard tham played on natural horn in his lifetime. He also wrote a book of etudes for valved horn! > and it's interesting to track the changes in horn use and > notation in their works. Strauss' ... > > Strauss began to almost always favor Horn in F, but often called for > changes > to other keys in the course of the work. The best summary of this confusing > practice is in Strauss' own words (or at least as translated by Theodore > Front for Strauss' revision of Berlioz' "Treatise on Instrumentation", > written in 1904 and reprinted by Kalmus in 1948): > > "Although horn players now use almost exclusively the horns in D, F, high A > and high B flat . . . it is nevertheless advisable to retain Richard > Wagner's method of indicating the key of the horns according to the changes > of key in the music. It is true that horn players do not observe these > different keys any more; but they are accustomed to transpose any key > instantly into the key of the horn they are using, and they much prefer > this > method to being forced to read all the time the horn in F, ..." (p. 279) > > At some point in the 20th century, most composers settled on the > now-standard Horn in F and stopped the practice of "changing horns" in the > parts. Exactly when that happened? I'm sure somebody out there has written > a > dissertation on it! > > Steve Larsen > OK, here's mine: My horn-player friend said Mahler settled on F horn after writing for horns in keys early, but a quick look through all the Mahler horn parts on IMSLP.org found nothing but F horn, so I'm not sure what the early writing would be. Bruckner wrote parts in different keys in some of the symphonies, but some have F horn only. Early Schoenberg and Stravinsky both were F horn only. Not Dvorak - he wrote in keys just as Brahms, [Dvorak 6th = Horn 1, 2 (in D, F, E), 3, 4 (in E, Bb, D)] if more chromatically. I was curious about J. Strauss Jr., since he might have been more in the public trenches - my friend didn't mention him but all the parts on IMSLP (not that many) are F horn. Perhaps the waltz king gets the award for helping establish the principle of writing for the F horn specifically, and going against the (written later) advice of Richard Strauss? (Perhaps more than ten minutes of research would be needed for this conclusion?) Raymond Horton > > > _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
