Guess we have to wait for Roger Norrington & Co to take up Brahms! ajr
---- Mariposa Symphony Orchestra <[email protected]> wrote: > Ray - I'm really interested to see what your hornist friend has to share! > > Actually, Brahms DID prefer natural horn, and DID hear his works played on > valveless horns - repeatedly. Robert Pascall, (Vice-Chair of the New > Complete Brahms Edition) writes, "Brahms preferred the old valveless horn, > and could mark notes to be played stopped in case players were tempted to > take the easier way." And there's a wealth of performance history in > Brahms' presence to verify not only his preference but experience. > > I think I may have mentioned here in the past Brahms' preference for smaller > rather than larger orchestras; on the large-end of performance practice about > which we know some details, the Vienna Phil (Brahms' 'hometown' orch) had 78 > musicians in 1864, 100 by 1885 - and played each of Brahms' symphonies at > least four times during his lifetime. Brahms himself conducted a "festival" > performance of the second in Hamburg in 1878 with an orchestra of 113 but his > PREFERRED orchestral sound was a smaller one in which the winds wouldn't be > overwhelmed by the strings nor forced into doubling. A smaller group in > which the sound of his beloved natural horn could more easily dominate; > narrow-bore trombones wouldn't have to push to be declarative. And in all > cases in which he had an option, he chose small groups: for the premiere of > the 1st symphony in 1876, he went with the Karlsruhe: 49 players, natural > horns. And he also built a 'special' relationship with the Meiningen Court > Orchestra - 49 players, natural horns. There are occasions in which Brahms > was offered augmented string sections (in Meiningen, particularly) but > refused them, preferring the smaller configuration. > > Our lately departed Sir Charles Mackerras made a VERY compelling case for > adhering to Brahms' stated wishes in his wonderful recordings about a decade > ago 'in the style of the original Meiningen performances' with an > appropriately-sized Scottish Chamber Orchestra, natural horns included - as > well as scrupulous attention paid to interpretive details of performance > practice as Brahms noted throughout his lifetime, and in apparently > consistent fashion throughout his years. There's a wonderful audio > commentary Mackerras offers in interview form as a bonus disc in which he > explains the sourcing of his interpretation, and much more. Fascinatin' > stuff.... > > Les Marsden > (209) 966-6988 > Cell: (559) 708-6027 (Emergency only) > 7145 Snyder Creek Road > Mariposa, CA 95338-9641 > > Founding Music Director and Conductor, > The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra > Music and Mariposa? Ahhhhh, Paradise!!! > > Mariposa County Planning Commissioner, District 5 > First Vice-President, The Mariposa County Arts Council, Inc. > Board Director, The Economic Development Corporation of Mariposa County > > http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html > Marsden Marx Pages: http://tinyurl.com/ygpj7og > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Horton > To: [email protected] > Cc: Steven Larsen > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:46 AM > Subject: Re: [Finale] RE: OT: Historical Horn Notation Question (long!) > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Steven Larsen <[email protected]> wrote: > > 4. Richard Wagner and Richard Strauss are the principal composers to > > promulgate the advancement of the horn (Brahms preferred the sound of the > > natural horn), > > > I asked a knowledgeable horn-playing friend about your later question (which > composers started writing for F horn all the time), and he promised me a > copy if an interesting article on Brahms horn writing, so I should have more > to add. I'll just say that I have been told that, even though Brahms wrote > parts that were playable on natural horn, he probably never heard tham > played on natural horn in his lifetime. He also wrote a book of etudes for > valved horn! > > > > > and it's interesting to track the changes in horn use and > > notation in their works. Strauss' ... > > > > > > Strauss began to almost always favor Horn in F, but often called for > > changes > > to other keys in the course of the work. The best summary of this > confusing > > practice is in Strauss' own words (or at least as translated by Theodore > > Front for Strauss' revision of Berlioz' "Treatise on Instrumentation", > > written in 1904 and reprinted by Kalmus in 1948): > > > > "Although horn players now use almost exclusively the horns in D, F, high > A > > and high B flat . . . it is nevertheless advisable to retain Richard > > Wagner's method of indicating the key of the horns according to the > changes > > of key in the music. It is true that horn players do not observe these > > different keys any more; but they are accustomed to transpose any key > > instantly into the key of the horn they are using, and they much prefer > > this > > method to being forced to read all the time the horn in F, ..." (p. 279) > > > > At some point in the 20th century, most composers settled on the > > now-standard Horn in F and stopped the practice of "changing horns" in the > > parts. Exactly when that happened? I'm sure somebody out there has written > > a > > dissertation on it! > > > > Steve Larsen > > > > OK, here's mine: > > My horn-player friend said Mahler settled on F horn after writing for horns > in keys early, but a quick look through all the Mahler horn parts on > IMSLP.org found nothing but F horn, so I'm not sure what the early writing > would be. Bruckner wrote parts in different keys in some of the > symphonies, but some have F horn only. Early Schoenberg and Stravinsky both > were F horn only. Not Dvorak - he wrote in keys just as Brahms, [Dvorak > 6th = Horn 1, 2 (in D, F, E), 3, 4 (in E, Bb, D)] if more chromatically. > > I was curious about J. Strauss Jr., since he might have been more in the > public trenches - my friend didn't mention him but all the parts on IMSLP > (not that many) are F horn. Perhaps the waltz king gets the award for > helping establish the principle of writing for the F horn specifically, and > going against the (written later) advice of Richard Strauss? (Perhaps more > than ten minutes of research would be needed for this conclusion?) > > Raymond Horton > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Finale mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > _______________________________________________ > Finale mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
