On Sep 16, 2012, at 9:25 PM, Darcy James Argue <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Chuck, > > I definitely hear where you are coming from here, and your solution is > probably the best given the constraints you are under. The "lumpiness" of the > syncopated dotted eighth notation is a valid concern, and the 4:3 tuplets > will most likely be easier for the band to phrase. > > However: if I might be so bold: were it me, I might prepare a backup > alternate drum part which includes the same meter changes the rest of the > band has... just in case the bandleader concludes that he does not actually > want what he currently claims to want, or in case the drummer has a different > idea about what information he wants to see on his part. Been there, done that! I included the regular part along with the amended one that Dave wants. My own drummer here (there's an octet version of this that we play) wants the part as I have written it. It allows him to relate better to the dotted halves that I play on the downbeats, etc. (This in spite of Christopher's incredulity about drummers who listen. Sometimes the trick is for the drummer to know when not to listen - when the band has difficulty and the drum part can serve to align them better if the drummer can ignore their errors. Trouble is, we want sensitive drummers, and it's hard for them to know when it might be useful for them to desensitize themselves.) This is beautiful music, and when it is well played, there's nothing else in jazz quite like it. I love the piece. Chuck > > Cheers, > > - DJA > ----- > WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org > > > > On 16 Sep 2012, at 11:46 PM, Chuck Israels <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Darcy - replying to the list- also in case it is of interest. >> >> I gave some thought to using the subdivisions you suggest - the dotted >> eighth patterns, and they are certainly mathematically correct. And they >> allow everything to be written in 4/4 - circumventing that whole problem. >> But the music has to be figured out in either case. It takes a moment to >> digest the meaning - how to play the quadruplets, but then they read as they >> sound - with the accents falling naturally where the notation suggests. If >> this gets written in syncopated dotted eighths, it also takes a moment of >> calculation to understand, and then everything looks syncopated and bumpy >> and you have to figure how to smooth it out and express it as a line. It >> takes interpretation either way, but I think the way it is written is more >> communicative of the desired result. >> >> And again, in my view, the drum part is fine as it is. This is for Dave >> berger's band, and he wants things the way he believes they will be easiest >> for him. An extracted part with 8 measures of 4/4 solved it for his needs. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Chuck >> >> >> On Sep 16, 2012, at 7:38 PM, Darcy James Argue <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Chuck, >>> >>> [I sent you a copy privately, but am CC'ing the list in case it's of >>> interest] >>> >>> The way you have it is fine, IMO. But if you need to put the drum part in >>> 4/4, I would want to make sure everyone was in 4/4. >>> >>> Given this requirement, I'd write all of the 4:3 tuplets as sixteenth-note >>> subdivisions. i.e.: >>> >>> dotted eighth - sixteenth [tied to] eighth - eighth [tied to] >>> - sixteenth - dotted eighth >>> >>> etc. >>> >>> You could also make each 4:3 tuplet four dotted eighths (breaking on the >>> barline as needed, of course. >>> >>> Both of these solutions are rhythmically equivalent to what you have, but >>> allow you to keep everyone in 4/4. >>> >>> Rehearsing a bigband piece where the drummer and the rest of the band have >>> different measure numbers is IMO a recipe for disaster, so I would avoid >>> like the plague any solution that involves asymmetrical barlines. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> - DJA >>> ----- >>> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org >>> >>> >>> >>> On 16 Sep 2012, at 6:43 PM, Chuck Israels <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Darcy, >>>> >>>> I just sent you the score - to get a more specific opinion. But just so >>>> you and Christopher know what I'm facing here, this is the bridge of Bill >>>> Evans' "Five", in which not only are the measures divided as I describe, >>>> but the melody is overlaid in groups of 4 quarters in the space of three >>>> quarters (4:3 tuplets), starting on the second beat of the 4/4 measure. >>>> (Of course, these are two rhythmically symmetrical phrases, so you only >>>> have to solve it once). >>>> >>>> I played the bass part to this hundreds of times and never once thought >>>> about how it might be notated. This score supports my contention that >>>> there was extraordinary invention in Bill's rhythm - a largely ignored >>>> element when people discuss his music. >>>> >>>> I'll send this to Christopher too. >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 16, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Darcy James Argue <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Chuck, >>>>> >>>>> Chris has given you the solution for what you want (system-long measures >>>>> with barlines and time signatures added as expressions/articulations). >>>>> >>>>> Depending on the complexity of the part, and whether you need the drum >>>>> part to appear in the score, there is also the option of creating the >>>>> drum part as a completely separate Finale document. >>>>> >>>>> Another option -- and I'm sure you've considered this -- might be to >>>>> notate the entire thing in 4/4, using accents to create the implied >>>>> downbeats in the horns etc. (and perhaps even a dashed line showing the >>>>> implied meters). This is a strategy that has worked well for my music in >>>>> the past -- implying different meters superimposed onto the 4/4 grid, >>>>> without changing the actual underlying time signature. >>>>> >>>>> This approach might not be suitable for what you've written, but it does >>>>> have the advantage of being much easier to do in Finale than asymmetrical >>>>> barlines, and also gives you consistent measure numbers in the drum part >>>>> vs. the other parts. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> - DJA >>>>> ----- >>>>> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 16 Sep 2012, at 3:09 PM, Chuck Israels <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have a drum part with an independent time signature (that has been >>>>>> selected in the attributes for this staff), but I don't know how to >>>>>> rebar the music for the drum part. >>>>>> >>>>>> All other parts have one measure of 4/4, 4 measures of 3/4, one measure >>>>>> of 4/4 and 4 measures of 3/4 again. This adds up to 8 measures of 4/4 >>>>>> for the drummer, and I want the drummer to see only that - not to be >>>>>> distracted by what the other players are doing. When I change the time >>>>>> signature on the drum part for the affected measures, the 3/4 measures >>>>>> are changed to 4/4, but there are too many bar lines, and too many beats. >>>>>> >>>>>> What am I doing wrong? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Chuck Israels >>>>>> 8831 SE 12th Ave. >>>>>> Portland, OR 97202-7097 >>>>>> >>>>>> land line: (503) 954-2107cell phone: (360) 201-3434 >>>>>> >>>>>> <www.chuckisraels.com> >>>>>> <www.chuckisraelsjazz.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Finale mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Finale mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>>> >>>> Chuck Israels >>>> 8831 SE 12th Ave. >>>> Portland, OR 97202-7097 >>>> >>>> land line: (503) 954-2107cell phone: (360) 201-3434 >>>> >>>> <www.chuckisraels.com> >>>> <www.chuckisraelsjazz.com> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Finale mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Finale mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> >> Chuck Israels >> 8831 SE 12th Ave. >> Portland, OR 97202-7097 >> >> land line: (503) 954-2107cell phone: (360) 201-3434 >> >> <www.chuckisraels.com> >> <www.chuckisraelsjazz.com> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Finale mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > _______________________________________________ > Finale mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107cell phone: (360) 201-3434 <www.chuckisraels.com> <www.chuckisraelsjazz.com> _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
