I learned Tenor Clef as a young cellist (easy for cellists - read one string 
over for the lower pitches in Tenor Clef - what looks like open D string is an 
open A string), and I now read it as if it were a Tenor Sax part, something I 
am used to seeing in my own scores (I work in transposed scores rather than 
concert pitch scores).  So it doesn't take much effort for me to understand it, 
but I am still more comfortable in Treble Clef.  I just read it more - and so 
it's more transparent.  I still struggle with viola parts!

Chuck


On Apr 13, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Darcy James Argue <[email protected]> wrote:

> HI Robert,
> 
> I'm not talking about the jazz world, of course. I'm talking about the NYC 
> new music world.
> 
> And I'm also not talking about fluency or facility — of course they all read 
> tenor clef with facility — but about preference. Non-violists are always 
> telling me how much they hate C-clefs.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - DJA
> -----
> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
> 
> On Apr 13, 2014, at 6:07 PM, Robert Patterson <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Wow, Darcy.
>> 
>> Your experience is utterly different than mine. My experience is that
>> bassoonists, cellists, even bassists, and *especially* trombonists of all
>> ages read tenor clef with complete facility and without the first hint of
>> complaint. Trombonists also read alto clef. Could this be the difference
>> between jazz band and orchestral worlds, I wonder.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Darcy James Argue <[email protected]>wrote:
>> 
>>> My experience is that bassoonists, trombonists, cellists, and pretty much
>>> all non-violists under the age of 40 detest C clefs. In  new music, at
>>> least, amongst younger players there is a very strong preference for ledger
>>> lines above the staff (up to 4) or, for extended extreme high-register
>>> passages, treble clef.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> - DJA
>>> -----
>>> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
>>> 
>>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Raymond Horton <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Some bass players detest tenor clef.  I have seen reviews in a bass
>>>> journal that said something like 'the much-feared tenor clef'
>>>> appearing in a piece that was being reviewed.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Raymond Horton
>>>> Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra
>>>> Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC
>>>> Composer, Arranger
>>>> VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Chuck Israels <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> I see treble clef more often than tenor clef for high notes in bass
>>> parts. At least that has been my experience in recent years.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 2:46 AM, Jan Angermüller <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Darcy,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> use a mid-measure clef and then assign
>>>>>> a playback expression to the first note in the new clef
>>>>>> that sets transposition to whatever you need (0, -12, 12).
>>>>>> Repeat the same when switching back to bass clef.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But do you really need to change the transposition ?
>>>>>> In standard contrabass notation the treble clef
>>>>>> is also read as 8vb, just like the bass clef.
>>>>>> So if you assign a standard bass clef (without 8vb)
>>>>>> and a standard treble clef (without 8vb) and set the
>>>>>> transposition settings in score manager to "Down octave".
>>>>>> Everything should be clear for the bass player and
>>>>>> you don't need any manual transposition changes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Using an 8vb bass clef and a treble clef without 8vb,
>>>>>> but that playsback as 8vb, seems inconsistent to me
>>>>>> and also not clear for the bass player.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And last but not least, treble clefs rarely appear in
>>>>>> contrabass notation. Usually the tenor clef is used
>>>>>> for high notes. Only the highest flageoletts or
>>>>>> Bottesini style arpeggios are usually written in treble clef.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 13.04.2014 08:08, schrieb Darcy James Argue:
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm working with a score in concert pitch, where the contrabasses are
>>> notated with the 8vb bass clef in the score, but a regular bass clef (as
>>> usual) in the part. This is all fine and well and easy to set up in the
>>> Score Manger (with a transposition and Set To Clef).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The problem arises when you need to change clefs to an 8vb treble
>>> clef in the score, showing as a regular treble clef in the part, and this
>>> clef change occurs mid-measure. In Finale 2011 in older, you could simply
>>> apply a staff style with the same transposition but Set To Clef assigned to
>>> treble clef -- but Fin2012 and 2014 won't allow you to apply a transposing
>>> staff style to a partial measure.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Given that, what is the best workaround? There is one I can think of
>>> involving clefs as expressions but I'd prefer to avoid going down that
>>> rabbit hole if I can avoid it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - DJA
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Chuck Israels
8831 SE 12th Ave.
Portland, OR 97202-7097

land line: (503) 954-2107
cell phone: (360) 201-3434

<www.chuckisraelsjazz.com>

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