Okay, but I stipulate that is empty kvetching and not worth paying attention to. Over the last dozen years of so I have had the opportunity to play in an orchestra with quite a lot of NY giggers, and I have never heard one peep about C clefs from any of them. I guess when Beethoven does it, no one complains.
For reference, my default clef for tenor trombone is tenor clef, dipping only occasionally into bass clef for the lowest octave (or the pedal octave). (Bass trombone is another story.) I have never heard any complaints. In fact when I did it in a wind band piece the principal trombone came up and thanked me afterwards. (Not so much for the clef but the range of the part.) The main kvetch I have heard from trombonists is that in the 20th century the trombone became a bass clef instrument and as a result many of the parts are too low. (I speak not of jazz bands with their 4 and 5 ledger line bass clef parts.) On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Darcy James Argue <[email protected]>wrote: > HI Robert, > > I'm not talking about the jazz world, of course. I'm talking about the NYC > new music world. > > And I'm also not talking about fluency or facility -- of course they all > read tenor clef with facility -- but about preference. Non-violists are > always telling me how much they hate C-clefs. > > Cheers, > > - DJA > ----- > WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org > > On Apr 13, 2014, at 6:07 PM, Robert Patterson <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Wow, Darcy. > > > > Your experience is utterly different than mine. My experience is that > > bassoonists, cellists, even bassists, and *especially* trombonists of all > > ages read tenor clef with complete facility and without the first hint of > > complaint. Trombonists also read alto clef. Could this be the difference > > between jazz band and orchestral worlds, I wonder. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Darcy James Argue <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > >> My experience is that bassoonists, trombonists, cellists, and pretty > much > >> all non-violists under the age of 40 detest C clefs. In new music, at > >> least, amongst younger players there is a very strong preference for > ledger > >> lines above the staff (up to 4) or, for extended extreme high-register > >> passages, treble clef. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> - DJA > >> ----- > >> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org > >> > >> On Apr 13, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Raymond Horton <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Some bass players detest tenor clef. I have seen reviews in a bass > >>> journal that said something like 'the much-feared tenor clef' > >>> appearing in a piece that was being reviewed. > >>> > >>> > >>> Raymond Horton > >>> Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra > >>> Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC > >>> Composer, Arranger > >>> VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Chuck Israels <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>>> I see treble clef more often than tenor clef for high notes in bass > >> parts. At least that has been my experience in recent years. > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 2:46 AM, Jan Angermüller <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Darcy, > >>>>> > >>>>> use a mid-measure clef and then assign > >>>>> a playback expression to the first note in the new clef > >>>>> that sets transposition to whatever you need (0, -12, 12). > >>>>> Repeat the same when switching back to bass clef. > >>>>> > >>>>> But do you really need to change the transposition ? > >>>>> In standard contrabass notation the treble clef > >>>>> is also read as 8vb, just like the bass clef. > >>>>> So if you assign a standard bass clef (without 8vb) > >>>>> and a standard treble clef (without 8vb) and set the > >>>>> transposition settings in score manager to "Down octave". > >>>>> Everything should be clear for the bass player and > >>>>> you don't need any manual transposition changes. > >>>>> > >>>>> Using an 8vb bass clef and a treble clef without 8vb, > >>>>> but that playsback as 8vb, seems inconsistent to me > >>>>> and also not clear for the bass player. > >>>>> > >>>>> And last but not least, treble clefs rarely appear in > >>>>> contrabass notation. Usually the tenor clef is used > >>>>> for high notes. Only the highest flageoletts or > >>>>> Bottesini style arpeggios are usually written in treble clef. > >>>>> > >>>>> Hope this helps. > >>>>> > >>>>> Jan > >>>>> > >>>>> Am 13.04.2014 08:08, schrieb Darcy James Argue: > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'm working with a score in concert pitch, where the contrabasses > are > >> notated with the 8vb bass clef in the score, but a regular bass clef (as > >> usual) in the part. This is all fine and well and easy to set up in the > >> Score Manger (with a transposition and Set To Clef). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The problem arises when you need to change clefs to an 8vb treble > >> clef in the score, showing as a regular treble clef in the part, and > this > >> clef change occurs mid-measure. In Finale 2011 in older, you could > simply > >> apply a staff style with the same transposition but Set To Clef > assigned to > >> treble clef -- but Fin2012 and 2014 won't allow you to apply a > transposing > >> staff style to a partial measure. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Given that, what is the best workaround? There is one I can think of > >> involving clefs as expressions but I'd prefer to avoid going down that > >> rabbit hole if I can avoid it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - DJA > >>>>>> ----- > >>>>>> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Finale mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Finale mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > >>>>> > >>>>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Finale mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > >>>> > >>>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > >>>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Finale mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Finale mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > >> > >> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > >> [email protected] > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Finale mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > > [email protected] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Finale mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: [email protected]
