>No one ever explained it to me, and I got it right away. ymmv sure, but you intuited it, it wasn't a logical extension of the notation. it isn't something one can "figure out", but can deduce, that is what i meant. and i don't think either of us would accept the idea that the norms of (this sort of) notation should be anything but logical.
>Crumb only uses it to fill whole "bars" (though sometimes without >barlines, as you see). > >>in your ex1 why is the end of the 1st measure in the upper piano not >a dotted 8th? > >While not relevant to the question at hand, I would guess it is because he >want to show a 3+2 feel. ah, but i think it is, because pno II is the only player that could give a 3+2 feel, and that would more effectively be shown by connecting the 8th beam in beats 4-5. he doesn'tnotate it that way, and i really don't believe (based of course only on my reading of this small excerpt and my memory of the pieces i have heard of his) that he intends that. so the idea of using a single (compound) symbol for duration is not used consistently. he doesn't use a dotted 8th where one is clearly warranted (or at least certainly justified) and then invents a new notation in a place where it is perhaps not needed/warranted. > >but a stemless quarter head with lv ties would do just as well. > >But then it might require rests, and the whole point of this >notation is to show the duration. yeah, true in this case. >If you carried this notation to its pedantic extreme, I suppose you >could fill a 9/4 bar with a double whole dotted on the right and >double-dotted on the left. But Crumb does not do that. He fills 9/4 >bars conventionally with dotted whole tied to dotted half. It seems >like this notation is reserved for filling 5-beat bars. exactly my point. if you are going to invent new notations it has to be done consistently. inventing a new notation that can only be used in one situation is common in new music, but crumb's notation is *very* traditional, so i would still argue that tied notes is the way to go. your proposal of course works: 1) right dots augment by a value that is 1/2 the value of the main note; each subsequent dot augments by a further 1/2 the previous dot value 2) left dots reduce by a value that is 1/4 the value of the main note; each subsequent dot reduces by a further 1/2 the previous dot value and i could write "this is not a typo" over something i notate but the fact of me doing it doesn't make it the unquestionably cleverest solution :-) the discrepancy of the first dot beside the notehead representing 1/2 vs 1/4 is not explained anywhere. why is the left dot 1/4? just because (george decided) it is. again, yeah we figured it out, but it isn't logical or inherently intuitive. that said... as i say early on in probably all the seminars on notation i have given: some aspects of notation make it inherently contradictory but we need to reduce as much as possible within a given context the redundancies and inconsistencies to help the musician gain quicker and more informative access to the music. or something to that effect. i am still completely unconvinced about this notation for 5/4, at least in this context. i don't think so much more is gained by inventing this new notation that makes a strong enough case for it to replace tied values. PROS - one duration, one notehead (indeed a strong argument) - largely based on existing notation, with an alteration CONS - new notation - is not intuitive and needs to be explained, or the musician has to deduce it - does not show conductor subdivisions (a conductor will beat in 3+2 or 2+3 and we don't see it here) - is used in a unique context - cannot be extended to similar "problems" (9/4) without involving unfortunate convolutions (1 vs. 2 dots) - creates more spacing issues on the left side (horizontal spacing is a serious issue in new music notation; you found a solution, but there is no need for a "solution" with tied notes) discussion on deck: what is wrong with his (piano) harmonic notation... ;-) -- neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com new music notation + arts management + translation [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise | [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: [email protected]
