It does seem like we get stuck sometimes debating things don't do the
trenches much good.  There are people that have to deal with these products,
often times without choice.  Whether it is cisco, ms, etc..... we really do
need to keep their commercial feet to the fire.  We also need to balance
risk vs. cost and practicality.  There is a distinction between complacency
and having the knowledge and resources to react to any given opportunity for
abuse.

I'm curious... when those on the list bring up timely application of fixes
what is considered timely?  And, what is the balance based on the number of
devices one might have?

Loren


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