Pedro wrote" >Most attempts to enlarge informational thought and to extend it to life, economies, societies, etc. continue to be but a reformulation of the former ideas with little added value.
S: Well, I have generalized the Shannon concept of information carrying capacity under 'variety'... {variety {information carrying capacity}}. This allows the concept to operate quite generally in evolutionary and ecological discourses. Information, then, if you like, is what is left after a reduction in variety, or after some system choice. Consider dance: we have all the possible conformations of the human body, out of which a few are selected to provide information about the meaning of a dance. STAN STAN On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan < pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> wrote: > Dear Steven and FIS colleagues, > > Many thanks for this opening text. What you are proposing about a pretty > structured discussion looks a good idea, although it will have to > confront the usually anarchic discussion style of FIS list! Two aspects > of your initial text have caught my attention (apart from those videos > you recommend that I will watch along the weekend). > > First about the concerns of a generation earlier (Shannon, Turing...) > situating information in the intersection between physical science and > engineering. The towering influence of this line of thought, both with > positive and negative overtones, cannot be overestimated. Most attempts > to enlarge informational thought and to extend it to life, economies, > societies, etc. continue to be but a reformulation of the former ideas > with little added value. See one of the last creatures: "Why Information > Grows: The Evolution of Order, from Atoms to Economies" (2015), by Cesar > Hidalgo (prof. at MIT). > > In my opinion, the extension of those classic ideas to life are very > fertile from the technological point of view, from the "theory of > molecular machines" for DNA-RNA-protein matching to genomic-proteomic > and other omics' "big data". But all that technobrilliance does not > open per se new avenues in order to produce innovative thought about the > information stuff of human societies. Alternatively we may think that > the accelerated digitalization of our world and the cyborg-symbiosis of > human information and computer information do not demand much brain > teasing, as it is a matter that social evolution is superseding by itself. > > The point I have ocasionally raised in this list is whether all the new > molecular knowledge about life might teach us about a fundamental > difference in the "way of being in the world" between life and inert > matter (& mechanism & computation)---or not. In the recent compilation > by Plamen and colleagues from the former INBIOSA initiative, I have > argued about that fundamental difference in the intertwining of > communication/self-production, how signaling is strictly caught in the > advancement of a life cycle (see paper "How the living is in the > world"). Life is based on an inusitate informational formula unknown in > inert matter. And the very organization of life provides an original > starting point to think anew about information --of course, not the only > one. > > So, to conclude this "tangent", I find quite exciting the discussion we > are starting now, say from the classical info positions onwards, in > particularly to be compared in some future with another session (in > preparation) with similar ambition but starting from say the > phenomenology of the living. Struggling for a > convergence/complementarity of outcomes would be a cavalier effort. > > All the best--Pedro > > > > Steven Ericsson-Zenith wrote: > >> ...The subject is one that has concerned me ever since I completed my PhD >> in 1992. I came away from defending my thesis, essentially on large scale >> parallel computation, with the strong intuition that I had disclosed much >> more concerning the little that we know, than I had offered either a >> theoretical or engineering solution. >> For the curious, a digital copy of this thesis can be found among the >> reports of CRI, MINES ParisTech, formerly ENSMP, >> http://www.cri.ensmp.fr/classement/doc/A-232.pdf, it is also available >> as a paper copy on Amazon. >> >> Like many that have been involved in microprocessor and instruction >> set/language design, using mathematical methods, we share the physical >> concerns of a generation earlier, people like John Von Neumann, Alan >> Turing, and Claude Shannon. In other words, a close intersection between >> physical science and machine engineering. >> >> ...I will then discuss some historical issues in particular referencing >> Benjamin Peirce, Albert Einstein and Alan Turing. And finally discuss the >> contemporary issues, as I see them, in biophysics, biology, and associated >> disciplines, reaching into human and other social constructions, perhaps >> touching on cosmology and the extended role of information theory in >> mathematical physics... >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fis mailing list >> Fis@listas.unizar.es >> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >> >> > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------- > Pedro C. Marijuán > Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group > Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud > Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) > Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X > 50009 Zaragoza, Spain > Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) > pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > ------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >
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