Thank you everybody for this discussion about SVG. When I introduced XML in my company, in 1999, (already 10 years ago !), I remember that I told as examples 40 or 50 XML-based standards. I explained that SVG was one of the oldest but I had many questions about its performance and about its compliance with existing browsers. I don't know what was the version of flash at this moment (2 or 3 ?)
When I decided to launch the first development with Royale, in december 2003, I was convinced that it was the only technology for making RIA and I was feeling that Royale will become a great thing because RIA was a real need for simplifying user interfaces. (Royale was the former name of Flex). I recruted 2 R&D people and they made the first Flex application in the world (which is the ancestor of Flexstore). These R&D people were SVG specialist and in their report, they explained the power of Flex. Flash was still in version 6. Today, Flash is in version 10, after a huge rewriting, and Flex is near the version 4. I don't know if Mister Allaire was influenced by SVG, but he made a wonderfull job when he invented the ancestor of Royale. I remember his conference in JavaOne 2002, showing the next generation of GUI. Java is widely deployed today, just because there was a pilot in plane, Sun. Flash player is the most widely deployed software in the world. It was proprietary. It is now open. Thanks to Macromedia to have evolve it. They were working for sustainability. And thanks to Adobe to reinforce this sustanability. With Flash we have the second generation of application portability. And thanks to Adobe to invent AIR. I choose Pdf in 1994, because I needed a sustainable format for publishing documents on CD-ROM. Now Pdf is a ISO standard and, as is, becomes the only way to transmit digital information towards the next generations. Again thanks to Adobe to build sustainability. I am not working for Adobe or any other ISV. But I think that making sustainable software is the most important thing we have to do. It is much more than interoperability, which is the minimal need. Standards are a dream of software sustainability. Sometimes they don't succeed. Sometimes they are ubiquitous. But they are just a way. The important thing is the pillar they can provide for making sustainable things. Hervé And the real bad thing is that the iPhone is not running AIR and Flash. Sam Lai a écrit : > > I think the issue here is that if Adobe/MS used SVG as a base instead > of their proprietary XML dialects, then they won't be able to innovate > and implement new features as quickly. > > If they added proprietary extensions to SVG, there'll be a massive > backlash as seen with IE and its CSS, JS and HTML extensions. > > If they try to get it into the standard, it will take ages to get it > through the committee, and they will lose the competitive advantage of > developing that feature in the first place. > > Unfortunately the standards process just does not keep up with > innovation. But personally, I don't think it should - details should > be thrashed out, and issues should be resolved in standards, > particularly those that could not be foreseen during the initial > implementation. > > I'm a believer of what Sebastian said - "Competition is what drives > technology forward, standards come after the war to clean up the mess, > but they don't innovate." > > What would be nice would be a SVG container for Flex/SL, and one that > can reach out into the app and allow the app to reach in. > > 2009/1/27 Guy Morton <[email protected] <mailto:guy%40alchemy.com.au>>: > > Both Adobe and MS could have used SVG as the basis for Flex and > Silverlight, > > but both prefer to lock people into proprietary approaches. Just > because SVG > > doesn't do everything Flash/Flex can do is no reason to use all the > things > > it DOES do (it has styling and scripting support for a start...). > > Having used both SVG and Flex, I can tell you the fundamentals are > the same. > > Sure Flex has a much better component library and the flash player has > > better penetration, but most of the things I currently do in Flex > are doable > > in SVG. > > Making the Flex SDK open source is a strategic decision to capture more > > market share. It has nothing to do with supporting W3C standards. It > is only > > about funneling more developers into delivering for the Flash > platform in > > the face of MS and Silverlight. > > I think you are seriously misguided about the role of standards. > HTML seems > > to have worked pretty well. I don't see MS or Adobe trying to do > their own > > versions of that (though they may screw up their support for it at > times, > > yes IE is dreadful)... > > Guy > > > > > > On 27/01/2009, at 9:30 AM, Sebastien ARBOGAST wrote: > > > > Like all W3C standards, SVG is just one tiny little piece of the > puzzle. The > > Flash platform or silverlight offer much more than that of course. > Component > > libraries, styling, scripting support, system integration, remoting > support, > > IDEs, and all the accessories that, like it or not, only a big > company can > > produce. > > > > Competition is what drives technology forward, standards come after > the war > > to clean up the mess, but they don't innovate. > > With the iPhone being so closed, at least Android and Palm have a > big card > > to play on openness to compete. > > But wishing for one silver bullet technology is not a dream, it is > not even > > a utopia, it's like wishing for hell on earth. > > Oh, and by the way, the Flex SDK is totally Open Source, but this has > > already been repeated thousands of times so I guess you know. > > Sébastien Arbogast > > > > http://sebastien-arbogast.com <http://sebastien-arbogast.com> > > > > > > 2009/1/26 Guy Morton <[email protected] <mailto:guy%40alchemy.com.au>> > >> > >> Mm..yes, but then again Apple is supporting SVG on the iPhone...Adobe > >> hasn't exactly covered itself in glory with its support for SVG. Of > course > >> since they bought Macromedia they no longer have any strategic use > for it. > >> And now we have Silverlight from MS we have THREE technologies that are > >> essentially the same - two proprietory and one a W3C standard. > >> > >> Sigh. It's the usual mess we get when corporations exercise their > >> competitive impulses. > >> Wouldn't it have been nice to have an open vector animation > standard (SVG) > >> that would play in a commonly deployed runtime (Flash)? Then we > could all > >> develop once and have native playback in browsers that support SVG, > player > >> support for those that don't and we'd be able to target the iPhone. > >> That of course will never happen. :-) > >> Guy > >> > >> > >> On 27/01/2009, at 12:23 AM, Wally Kolcz wrote: > >> > >> Could not have put it any better myself. > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: "Paul Andrews" <[email protected] <mailto:paul%40ipauland.com>> > >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 4:07 AM > >> To: [email protected] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex. AIR and IPhone > >> > >> > >> LOL, yes - the iphone only supports two gestures for flex, flash > and air > >> and they involve the use of one or two fingers.. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From:Sebastien ARBOGAST > >> To:[email protected] <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 11:28 AM > >> Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex. AIR and IPhone > >> You can start by a prayer, because the Flash runtime is not > available on > >> the iPhone in any form, including AIR. > >> And it will probably never be because of commercial and strategic > reasons: > >> the day people can deploy Flex applications to the iPhone, the App > Store is > >> as good as dead... sort of. > >> Sébastien Arbogast > >> > >> http://sebastien-arbogast.com <http://sebastien-arbogast.com> > >> > >> > >> 2009/1/26 thelordsince1984 <[email protected] > <mailto:loreboa%40katamail.com>> > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> i would create an air application and deploy it into iphone > >>> environment and allow touchscreen gestures. > >>> How can i start? > >>> > >>> Thanks a lot > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Lorenzo > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
