That is *exactly* what I am suggesting. Although not quite "letting" my UI drive the API, but "using" it to drive my API yes.
-- Dave Wolf Cynergy Systems, Inc. Adobe Flex Alliance Partner http://www.cynergysystems.com http://www.cynergysystems.com/blogs Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: 866-CYNERGY --- In [email protected], "Douglas Knudsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dave, by > "Developing your user > experience in a front-to-back approach which assures great fidelity > between the data formats of the tiers can account for an order of > magnitude performance increase. That is the kind of performance > increase users will actually experience" > > In short you are suggesting letting your UI drive the API the UI uses, eh? > > DK > > On 8/22/06, Dave Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I simply have to disagree here. We can demonstrate several in > > production applications which we have developed using SOAP XML > > WebServices and they perform like a champ. One of them was the runner > > up for last years MAX award. The majority of the applications we > > develop use this architecture and to date not a single time has a > > client nor a user complained about the performance of runtime data > > services based on SOAP. > > > > There are a few false rumors that continue to creep up in the Flex > > community about the performance issues around SOAP. > > > > There are benchmarks which show that AMF can be drastically faster > > than a SOAP call for the same data. Sometimes even 100% faster. Yup > > that's true there are. But you have to peel away the layers of the > > onion to see the reality. Statistics can be misleading. For > > instance, if AMF is 300 milliseconds and SOAP is 600 milliseconds the > > 100% difference isnt even relative. How many people do you know who > > can even see 1/3 of a seconds difference? In the end raw marshalling > > isnt the issue, it is the user and their experience. Flex2 made > > DRASTIC improvements it the performance of XML parsing and in our own > > benchmarks the delta between the two services choices is often as low > > as 10%. > > > > Of a much greater impact that the marshalling time is the UI > > "shredding" and binding of the data. Most badly performing RIA's > > suffer from data being returned from the back-end in a format that > > holds no fidelity with the RIA. This requires the RIA to tear apart > > the returned structural data and place it into its own structures and > > objects and bind those to UI controls. Developing your user > > experience in a front-to-back approach which assures great fidelity > > between the data formats of the tiers can account for an order of > > magnitude performance increase. That is the kind of performance > > increase users will actually experience. > > > > There are many other very smart things you can do like extending > > existing controls to do streaming rendering of data to provide the > > perception of speed, server side paging, caching, etc. > > > > In the end perception is reality. All that matters from the UI > > perspective is the experience that the user has. Worring about 300 > > milliseconds is like trying to debate the number of angels that could > > dance on the end of a pin. If the user can't see them, it doesn't > > matter how many there are. > > > > The running rumor that you simply cannot develop first class RIAs in > > Flex using a SOAP web services back-end is simply not accurate, and we > > have the apps in production with our clients to prove it. > > > > > > -- > > Dave Wolf > > Cynergy Systems, Inc. > > Adobe Flex Alliance Partner > > http://www.cynergysystems.com > > http://www.cynergysystems.com/blogs > > > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Office: 866-CYNERGY > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Shannon Hicks" <shan@> wrote: > > > > > > Bob- > > > > > > Web Services / HTTP services are not built to be the primary backend > > of your > > > flex applications. Because they are XML based, they have quite a bit > > more > > > overhead than flex's built-in AMF (Action Message Format). AMF is > > smaller, > > > faster and uses less bandwidth than XML. AMF is what FDS and ColdFusion > > > 7.0.2 use to communicate to a Flex app. > > > > > > So let's say that your question is narrowed down to "FDS or CF?". > > Adobe's > > > ideal answer is "yes." They are complimentary to each other, CF > > allows for > > > wonderful rapid development of Flex apps, and FDS brings some amazing > > > features to the table through it's Messaging an Data Management > > services. > > > > > > Web Services (SOAP) support is in Flex primarily to consume third-party > > > data, allowing you to add it to your app. > > > > > > Hope this points you in the right direction. > > > > > > Shan > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > > Behalf Of rhlarochelle > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:27 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: [Junk E-Mail - LOW] [flexcoders] Re: Choice of backend > > systems - > > > which provides best functionality > > > > > > > > > > > > Franck, > > > > > > I appreciate your respons. When you say Remote Objects/Flex Data > > > Services provides the most advanced way of interoperating with the > > > backend, what specifically is possible? > > > > > > What are the capabilities that I would get leveraging Remote > > > Objects/Flex Data Services that I would not get (or would be difficult > > > to implement) with Web services or HTTP services. If there are > > > resources on the Adobe site that spell this out, please point me to > > them. > > > > > > Since we are looking at the different possibilities and we have > > > somewhat of a blank slate, the more I can go into this with open eyes > > > the better. I appreciate everyone who responded being willing to guide > > > someone new to this architecture. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Bob > > > > > > --- In HYPERLINK > > > "mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com"flexcoders@, "Franck de > > > Bruijn" > > > <franck.de.bruijn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Flex is supposed to be backend independent. So you should choose the > > > > technology you're most comfortable with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are in general 3 ways of integrating with your back-end: > > > > > > > > * webservices: total freedom, but can turn out to be hard. Especially > > > > with .Net there are some problems, although Adobe is working to fix > > > it. With > > > > Java/Axis, you'll probably find no issues. > > > > * Remote Objects / Flex Data Services. The most advanced way of > > > > interoperating with your back-end, but requires JAVA on the backend. > > > > * HTTP services: simple HTTP calls. For simple interfaces it will > > > > work, but for the more complex ones it will be insufficient. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Franck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: HYPERLINK > > > "mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com"flexcoders@ > > > [mailto:HYPERLINK > > > "mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com"[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > > > Behalf Of rhlarochelle > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 1:47 AM > > > > To: HYPERLINK > > > "mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com"flexcoders@ > > > > Subject: [flexcoders] Choice of backend systems - which provides best > > > > functionality > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am new to Flex 2, and have the opportunity to develop a new > > > > application. Given all of the choices of back end technology out there > > > > (J2EE, Coldfusion, PHP), which will provide for the richest user > > > > experience? > > > > > > > > It seems that leveraging J2EE and Java gives the best potential for > > > > sharing objects (and updates to objects ) over the wire. Have I got > > > > this right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.4 - Release Date: 8/21/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.4 - Release Date: 8/21/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Flexcoders Mailing List > > FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > > Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Douglas Knudsen > http://www.cubicleman.com > this is my signature, like it? > -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
