Hi Curt, A pleasure, and FUN ;=))
Yes, I know a low frame rate can play havoc when you are trying to fine control an aircraft from its attitude feedback, and I should have mentioned my rate, but is always in the high 50-70 fps range in this Ubuntu machine... so should NOT be a factor... I just did another few runs, and this time it crashed just while circling... it was in a right bank, which got too much and the nose came up, and it stalled... I am mostly in the 'chase' view... The first time this happened at 2000 feet, it caught itself - leveled a bit and bumped the throttles, and began climbing back... But a little later, 20-30 secs, it happened again, and this time was still too low to recover, and SPLASH... I had not previously let it fly in the 'circle' mode for too long, but now note if I leave it in circling mode, it will eventually end up in the water... seldom lasts more than 5 or 10 minutes... You seem to be deliberately holding its speed down around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when greater than this, and throttle back - and although flaps (I think full flap?) are still applied, 150 must be quite 'low' for this sleek bird... And I am not sure how many degrees each marking on the hud bottom bank indicator represents, and while it starts the banking in between the 1 and 2 of the 'big' marks, at the stall point it is beyond the 2nd big mark, approaching, even reaching the 3rd big mark, which is on the horizontal - ie 90 degrees! At the moment of stall it loses 1200-1400 feet in 1-3 seconds... while it can happen in a right or left turn, it does seem to happen quicker in a right turn... I now understand the 'reset' is a full sim reset, but that is not too helpful if you have set up say a particular weather, wind or something that you want to repeat... must get around to feeding that in, in the command, so a reset puts it back (I hope)... If you could describe a bit more where some of this is decided/calculated I too could try tweaking some values... I would probably bump the speed a little, and really watch the bank angle... those stubby little wings do not give much lift anyway, but the slender body gives close to none ;=)) As mentioned, I too have more than a passing interest in automated flight control... Regards, Geoff. PS: OT: I too searched a little for the expression to be a 'bunny', but could not really find anything ;=(( I am sure it comes from my Australian origin, and has the meaning to take the rap, take the medicine, sort of to be the guinea pig... Why poor little bunny rabbits feature I just do not know ;=)) Maybe from when Australia had a big war on rabbits _MANY_ years ago, and put out millions of traps for the bunnies, as well as other methods, like poisons - myxomatosis... So to be a bunny was to be trapped ;=(()) Maybe other Australian's have a better memory than me, and can explain it better, but meantime I will blame my parents, or the Australian educational system, for giving me such a stupid expression ;=() On reading up on 'to be a Guinea Pig', another very confusing expression - not really a 'pig' and not from Guinea! - I found a reference that in Johnston's Natural History, they go by the name Spanish Coney. And 'coney' was the old name for a rabbit, a bunny... Huh! Maybe the early immigrants to Australia decided to mix it up even more! ;=)) Or got it confused on the long boat ride half way around the world... On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 11:00 -0500, Curtis Olson wrote: > Hi Geoff, > > > Thanks for checking it out! I was starting to get worried by the > complete silence that no one would try this at all. :-) > > > I'll tweak the instructions a bit as per your comments. And if you > (or anyone else) has any other points that should be clarified or > fixed, just holler. I will probably eventually post this on the > DIYdrones site to see if we can pull in some of those guys to give > FlightGear a try -- so I would like the instructions to be as "newbie" > friendly as possible. > > With respect to the instability on the downwind and final legs of the > approach, could you turn on your frame rate counter and see what kind > of frame rates you are getting. In my experience the F-14b is very > sensitive to low frame rates and when the frame rates drop below about > 17 I have a *lot* of trouble flying manually or via autopilot. It has > a pretty complex flight control system wired in and I have tried to > build my autopilot on top of that rather than remove/replace it all. > > I originally started this process with the seahawk/nimitz, but at some > point switched to the f-14b and the vinson because the models were so > much more detailed. > > > Reset: this is calling the main FlightGear reset (just like selecting > it from the File menu) so yes indeed it does reset everything to > original start up conditions. > > > And just to reiterate, if anyone tries this and has a lot of trouble > with stability in the autoland system, I'd be very interested in > hearing what kind of frame rates they were seeing at the time. > > > Thanks for being a "bunny" even though I'm not familiar with that > expression (at least in this context). :-) > > Curt. > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Geoff McLane wrote: > Hi Curt, > > Always a bunny to try NEW things, and eventually > got there ;=)) > > I think you should for sure say somewhere to > add the option --carrier=Vinson when running > fgfs, either via fgrun, or on the command > line... Of course this is implied, but my first > attempt was without this ;=(( > > And it would also be good to mention the > aircraft is the --aircraft=f_14b-uas option... > if not using fgrun, or 'Drone f-14b' in fgrun... > Again implied, but not stated... > > So - > 1. Backed up, and unzipped into f-14b > 2. Loaded drone --aircraft=f-14b-uas > 3. Deselected Nimitz, and selected Vinson > 4. Exit and restart > > Attempt 1: > ---------- > > But am placed on runway 10L at KSFO... with > a view of my wheels... so ok, I launch, and > it starts to circle KSFO at a very low altitude... > Then click Go Home, and it heads and finds > Vinson out to sea... but refuses to land... > > It looks like it is lining up, but on each > approach, after it changed the flight task to > 'downwind', it circles there... many circles, > and circles... > > Pushing Go Home again, changes flight task to > 'gohome' but on close approach, with flaps > down, it veers to the left, and switches > to 'downwind' again... > > After a few repeats of this, it eventually > switched to 'final' and crashed into the > sea on a too steep right banking maneuver... > > A reset put me back at KSFO... > > At least on reset the HUD appeared ;=)) I > had not particularly noticed its absence until > it suddenly appeared ;=() > > Tried another Launch! and when circling > KSFO, again GoHome... This was much better in > that it went from 'gohome', to 'downwind', to > 'final', to 'flare'... > > But the carrier approach was WILD, with too > large a left and right swings over and past the > center landing line... over compensating... > > And at 'flare' it was BELOW the carrier > deck level, and crashed into the behind of > the carrier... > > Exit fgfs to think... > > Attempt 2: > ---------- > > Then eventually thought of, and found the > --carrier=Vinson option, so this 2nd attempt > initialized on the Carrier... PHEW ;=)) > > But after Launch, circle a bit, then Go Home, > crashed into the sea on 'downwind'... in a > too steep bank... so reset > > 2nd takeoff, circle, and click gohome, and > eventually, had a good landing ;=)) > > >From downwind -> final -> flare -> touchdown -> > shutdown -> end - and HAPPINESS... > > Attached below is the usage and console output... > > Answers and comments: > > Yes, eventually got it 'working', but see the > suggested clear addition of the --aircraft=f-14b-uas > and --carrier=Vinson to the instructions somewhere... > > Having also played a little with auto line up and > landing code logic I do understand this is a time > consuming 'art', but was quite shocked by the > multiple CRASHES before one good landing... > > Wild left and right crossing, steep banking and > losing altitude into the sea, and crashing 'below' > deck level need to be worked on... And these are > strange, in that the final good landing was > VERY smooth indeed... > > Your 'Reset' seems to reset more than just your > scenario... I had disabled Global weather fetch, > and cleared the clouds, but after your 'reset' > they returned... > > And just to round out the state -> ... display, > the 'gohome' state should be added to the > output... there is nothing between - > state -> circle > state -> downwind > > Overall, quite some FUN ;=)) > > Interesting addition, so it could be put on > display somewhere - an [ ] Auto-loop option, > where an internal 'Launch!' is done, and > after circling for say a few minutes, an > internal 'gohome' done, and at the 'end', > an internal 'reset', back to 'launch'... etc > > This 'Auto-loop' option could also vary the > 'view' each few minutes ... camera -> cockpit > -> chase -> flyby -> camera... > > HTH. > > Regards, > Geoff. > > Attempt 1: Missed --carrier=Vinson option and disaster > ====================================================== > > run_fgfs.sh: Running: ./fgfs > --fg-root=/home/geoff/fg/fg16/fgfs/data > --aircraft=f-14b-uas --timeofday=noon > Processing command line arguments > Failed to find parking position at airport KSFO > FGMultiplayMgr - No receiver port. Multiplayer mode disabled. > Initializing Liveries > HERE: crs = 149.9436573031764 dist = 148.2411422427136 > loading scenario 'vinson_demo' > getting flightplan: Cruise-1 > AIShip: Cruise-1 initializing waypoints > AIShip: Cruise-1 done initialising waypoints 0 > creating 3D noise texture... DONE > Pilot dual control ... initialized > Initializing F-14B Systems > Initializing F-14B fuel system > Initializing F-14B weapons system > Initializing Radar Data > Initializing drone autoflight system. > state -> init-settle > state -> pretakeoff > state -> takeoff > state -> climbout > state -> route > state -> circle > Scaling image > '/home/geoff/fg/fg16/fgfs/data/Models/Maritime/Military/HeloPaint.png' > from (700,446) to (512,512) > state -> downwind > state -> downwind > state -> downwind > state -> downwind > state -> downwind > state -> downwind > state -> downwind > state -> downwind > state -> final > [crashed into sea] > Saving F-14B fuel levels > passed invalid index (0) to FGRouteMgr::jumpToIndex > AIShip: Cruise-1 initializing waypoints > AIShip: Cruise-1 done initialising waypoints 0 > Pilot dual control ... initialized > Initializing F-14B Systems > Initializing F-14B fuel system > Initializing F-14B weapons system > Initializing Radar Data > Restoring F-14B fuel levels > Initializing drone autoflight system. > state -> init-settle > state -> pretakeoff > state -> takeoff > state -> climbout > state -> route > state -> circle > state -> downwind > state -> final > state -> flare > [crashed into back of carrier] > Saving F-14B fuel levels > passed invalid index (0) to FGRouteMgr::jumpToIndex > AIShip: Cruise-1 initializing waypoints > AIShip: Cruise-1 done initialising waypoints 0 > Pilot dual control ... initialized > Initializing F-14B Systems > Initializing F-14B fuel system > Initializing F-14B weapons system > Initializing Radar Data > Restoring F-14B fuel levels > Wildfire drop summary: #extinguished cells: 0 #protected > cells: 0 > #wasted: 0 > Wildfire fire summary: #created cells: 2 #cells still burning: > 0 > AL lib: ALc.c:1420: alcDestroyContext(): deleting 4 Source(s) > AL lib: ALc.c:1818: alcCloseDevice(): deleting 3 Buffer(s) > > Attempt 2: First a crash, but eventually a good landing ;=)) > ============================================================ > ~/fg/fg16$ ./run_f14b.sh > run_fgfs.sh: Running: ./fgfs > --fg-root=/home/geoff/fg/fg16/fgfs/data > --aircraft=f-14b-uas --carrier=Vinson --timeofday=noon > Processing command line arguments > FGMultiplayMgr - No receiver port. Multiplayer mode disabled. > Initializing Liveries > HERE: crs = 149.9436573031764 dist = 148.2411422427136 > loading scenario 'vinson_demo' > getting flightplan: Cruise-1 > AIShip: Cruise-1 initializing waypoints > AIShip: Cruise-1 done initialising waypoints 0 > creating 3D noise texture... DONE > Pilot dual control ... initialized > Initializing F-14B Systems > Initializing F-14B fuel system > Initializing F-14B weapons system > Initializing Radar Data > Scaling image > '/home/geoff/fg/fg16/fgfs/data/Models/Maritime/Military/HeloPaint.png' > from (700,446) to (512,512) > Initializing drone autoflight system. > state -> init-settle > state -> pretakeoff > state -> takeoff > state -> climbout > state -> route > state -> circle > state -> downwind > [crashed into sea here - reset] > Saving F-14B fuel levels > passed invalid index (0) to FGRouteMgr::jumpToIndex > AIShip: Cruise-1 initializing waypoints > AIShip: Cruise-1 done initialising waypoints 0 > Pilot dual control ... initialized > Initializing F-14B Systems > Initializing F-14B fuel system > Initializing F-14B weapons system > Initializing Radar Data > Restoring F-14B fuel levels > Initializing drone autoflight system. > state -> init-settle > state -> pretakeoff > state -> takeoff > state -> climbout > state -> route > state -> circle > state -> downwind > state -> final > state -> flare > state -> touchdown > state -> shutdown > state -> end > [good smooth landing] > Saving F-14B fuel levels > passed invalid index (0) to FGRouteMgr::jumpToIndex > AIShip: Cruise-1 initializing waypoints > AIShip: Cruise-1 done initialising waypoints 0 > Pilot dual control ... initialized > Initializing F-14B Systems > Initializing F-14B fuel system > Initializing F-14B weapons system > Initializing Radar Data > Restoring F-14B fuel levels > Wildfire drop summary: #extinguished cells: 0 #protected > cells: 0 > #wasted: 0 > Wildfire fire summary: #created cells: 1 #cells still burning: > 0 > AL lib: ALc.c:1420: alcDestroyContext(): deleting 4 Source(s) > AL lib: ALc.c:1818: alcCloseDevice(): deleting 3 Buffer(s) > ~/fg/fg16$ > > > On Wed, 2011-09-21 at 22:03 -0500, Curtis Olson wrote: > > I have something here that I think is kind of fun. I've > been fiddling > > with this off and on since last fall and decided it was time > to clean > > it up a bit and quit hording all the fun for myself. > Basically I have > > taken the F-14b and created a high performance Navy "drone" > out of > > it. It can auto-launch from a carrier, auto fly a route (if > you've > > input one) and can do circle holds (compensating for wind.) > I've > > added a simulated gyro stabilized camera that will point at > anything > > you click on and then hold that view steady no matter what > the > > airplane does (similar to what real uav's can do.) Finally, > you can > > command it to return home and it will find the carrier, > setup a > > reasonable approach and nail the landing perfectly every > time > > (factoring in wind, carrier speed, etc.) > > > > > > I put together a quick web page that includes more of an > explanation > > and description of what the demo does. I have a link to a > zip file > > you need to download. This must be extracted over the top > of the > > existing f-14b as per the installation instructions on the > following > > web site: > > > > > > http://www.flightgear.org/uas-demo/ > > > > > > I'm hoping to get a few people that would like to try this > and report > > back on a couple things: > > > > > > - were you able to get it to work? Were there any missing > files or > > major blunders in the .zip file package? > > > > > > - are there places where my web page instructions stink, and > can you > > help me write better or more accurate instructions, > especially for the > > Mac > > > > > > - I already know my instructions for setting up the vinson > demo aren't > > good, but it's been so long since I tried to do this on > windows I > > forget all the fgrun details. Maybe there is an easier way > now? > > > > > > - finally, what do you think? general impressions? things > you thought > > were especially cool, or especially stupid? You probably > can think of > > a dozen feature requests, and I have some things in the > pipeline > > already. (For instance I have a refueling mode that is > currently > > disabled, but almost is close to working. And I've done > some > > preliminary work on adapting all of the auto-land logic for > runway > > landings.) > > > > > > - if you happen to go look at the nasal code that does all > the magic, > > please don't judge me (quoting Eskeletor from nacho libre) > -- that was > > actually a fun sub-project (for a former computer > scientist.) :-) > > > > > > - Oh, and eventually I'd like to add pictures to the > instructions. If > > you happen to catch an especially cool looking view > (weather, clouds, > > time of day, sun, sun glint, scene composition, etc.) then > please feel > > free to send me a picture or two (or even a youtube movie) > so I can > > make the instructions prettier and more exciting. :-) > > > > > > If I can get this demo all cleaned up and generally running > pretty > > well, I have another UAS demo that is similar, but centered > around the > > ATI Resolution-3 airframe (which is a 92" 2.33m composite > marinized > > flying wing.) Then if that all goes well, I have actual > embedded C > > code to do much of these same sorts of things that can run > on a > > gumstix embedded computer (or similar.) This code is able > to talk > > directly to flightgear via udp packets, and has actually > flown in a > > couple different UAV airframes using real sensors and real > actuators. > > So you might see a progression developing here from pure > simulation > > with all the logic prototyped in nasal, to software in the > loop > > running pure C/C++ code, to the same software running on > actual > > embedded hardware (using FlightGear as reality), to the end > result of > > an actual real life UAV. (And I've been using drone, UAS, > and UAV > > pretty interchangeably here.) > > > > Thanks! > > > > Curt. > > -- > > Curtis Olson: > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ > > http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 _______________________________________________ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
