Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXUS AND THE PLASTIC ARTS

[Cecil Touchon]

Hi Allan, Thanks for responding. I was thinking more along the lines of Friedman's speculations (assuming other flux artists agree with him)... globalism, the unity of art and life, intermedia, experimentalism, chance, playfulness, simplicity, implicativeness, exemplativism, specificity, presence in time, and musicality. Using this idea, I would say any mature mondrian work is a fluxus painting (except that he was a little too early) Especially if other artist continue to take the simple idea and make more paintings in a neoplastic manner - rectilinear divisions , rectangles, black, white, blue, yellow and red. They are programatic, systemic, repeatable anonymous, global, experimental, concept based, chance based, simple, unadorned, minimal, nondecorative, exemplicative, implicative, specific, etc. It seems to me they have just about everything. Are they fluxus-like works or in line with a contemporary fluxus idea? Would an artist today doing them as such be a fluxus artist if he called himself one? Just about any modern glass skyscraper would also be a fluxus work would it not? Even a sort of oversized fluxkit if you will. I am also thinking, that, like neoplasticim, there are certain things that make a work of art specificly fluxus besides merely calling it fluxus. Qualities that, when you see a work of art with them you are inclined to say, that is an example of what fluxus is as expressed in the plastic arts. Cecil Allan Revich wrote: Cecil's Question: "I would like to start a discussion on how to identify a visual art work as a specifically fluxus art work other than being called a fluxus work or in a fluxus exhibition..." Allan's Answers; Part One: 1) The Easy Way - Put a label on it 2) The Other Easy Way - Have it made by one of the 1st gen Fluxus artists 3) Not so Easy Ways (my interpretations - possibly full of shyte - but they work OK for me) - Early Fluxus artists generally worked with two basic forms - Events and Fluxkits (object collections) - There also seemed to be a very strong ethic of DIY (do it yourself) for both the creation and distribution of the creations. - So, if you made it yourself, distributed it yourself, it was an event (or event score), or it was a collection of small objects assembled into a 'kit' and you called it fluxus - then it probably was Fluxus. 4) The Hard Way - You or somebody else is pretty sure that it has something to do with Fluxus, but it has nothing in common with items one through three (above). 5) The Really Hard Way - You are the only person in the whole universe who thinks the work is Fluxus. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Cecil Touchon Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 11:42 PM To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXUS AND THE PLASTIC ARTS This was the original message Allan I would like to start a discussion on how to identify a visual art work as a specificly fluxus art work other than being called a fluxus work or in a fluxus exhibition. Most fluxus works tend to be performance oriented. How do you go about making a specificly fluxus work of visual art? I would assume that we would consider Ken's 12 fluxus ideas and Dick's 9 points but they are normally thinking about portability and reproducibility as in scores it seems to me. I have a lot of my own ideas that I believe are important additional items when it comes to the visual arts that I would like to bring up if any one is interested in a discussion on the topic. For instance I don't really like chance in the purely mechanical sense as a working tool. Too dry, too meaningless, too uninteresting to be sustainable as an artistic practice from day to day. I prefer serendipity as a working premise which includes chance as a possible element but allows for interplay and discovery on the artist's part which I believe is very important. I also think that chance, randomness and chaos suggest a lack of knowing about thing beyond science such as those things of a spiritual nature. The patterns of life that one does not understand or recognise are called randomness or chaos but this is just a lack of recognition of the greater self organizing patterns of Life. How many on the list are primarily visual artists and what in your work makes it fluxus? Cecil Touchon http://cecil.touchon.com ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ If you read this far, here is Part Two: "How many on the list are primarily visual artists and what in your work makes it fluxus"? - I don't know if I am "primarily" a visual artist. It is not (unfortunately) how I make a living. It is the primary form that my artwork takes, although I also play music, and do what I can to question the status quo. - Of my visual art, some has very little to do with fluxus (abstract acrylic paintings, figurative drawings), some is related to Fluxus but may or may not be what others would call fluxus (poetry, concrete poetry), while other works are what I (and at least some others) would term Fluxus (FFZ Intervention Events, documentation prints of the FFZ Events, Fluxus Object mail art). =========================================== And for anybody still reading, here is part three" - I am too young to have been part of the first generation of Fluxus - I am roughly the same age as the "2nd Generation" fluxus artists (48), but I was only peripherally involved with mail art when most of the other artists my age were already deeply involved in fluxus. - I am older than the newest generation of fluxus artists, but like them, it is only in the past couple of years that I have taken the plunge into the deep end of the Fluxpool. - The generational thing allows me to see Fluxus with the enthusiasm of youth tempered with the wisdom that can only come with experience. On the other hand, being a relative newcomer to Fluxus, also means that there are still some big gaps in my knowledge - gaps that require a dose of humility to accompany the enthusiasm of youth and experience of age. Allan Revich ------------ The Fluxus Blog http://www.digitalsalon.com/weblog/