On 05 Mar 2010, at 23:04 , Andrey Fedorov wrote:

> But a good map-maker includes the "important stuff" and discard the 
> "details". When "complexity" or more specifically "the possible states of 
> each component" are part of the "important stuff", CRT is not a good 
> representation of a system.


Science goes through phases.

Initially you are collecting observations.

There are blue boxes, red circles and all kinds of shapes in all kinds of 
colors.

After a time a pattern starts to emerge.

Whenever you see a green triangle you also see a blue square and a black 
icosahedron.

So then you haul out the first version of your CRT and you make a public 
announcement of your theory:

IF there is a green triangle AND a blue square THEN we can expect to see a 
black icosahedron.

But then Andrey Fedorov comes and pisses all over your bagels and complains 
that yesterday he was looking in his ORDBMS and he constructed a query that 
showed not one, not two but fifteen _hundred_ instances where the state of the 
system has a green triangle and a blue square but no black icosahedron!

At first you despair but then Alejandro comes along and he is thinking 
systemically so he's looking for invariants so what he does is he re-runs 
Andrey's query w/ a timestamp and - lo and behold !

He makes the huge realization that whenever T_month modulo 9 is equal to 0 the 
green triangles are having wild monkey fornication with the blue squares and 
black  icosahedrons are the offspring! Major paradigm shift! Society is never 
the same again! Alejandro gets publicly crucified! Great honor!

So yeah, no one is suggesting that you use CRT for capturing the state of your 
systems at discrete intervals. 

The purpose of CRT is to describe your mental model of what you think is behind 
all the observations you are making.

A lot of the fighting programmers do with each other is around the argument 
whether 'tis nobler to suffer the arrows [1]
of general interfaces to computation or to take arms against seas of 
unmanageable state and through normalization unto the third normal form end 
them.

The reality is that what you're going to do depends largely on what your 
program is modeling.

Sometimes you're in a domain (Large Hadron Collider anyone?) where everyone's 
so utterly and completely clueless that you're going to have to spend your 
entire career going painstakingly through the state of your system for every 
possible starting energy of e at every time interval t.

Other times you're engaged in a program like STEPS and you're thinking it's 
largely overdue for someone to do the difficult, dangerous, underpaid and 
totally under-appreciated work of coming up with an (executable) general theory 
of computing.

- antoine

[1] http://www.haskell.org/arrows/




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