FYI: at last week's Scala Days there was a talk about Asymmetric Lenses in Scala; these are unidirectional. http://skillsmatter.com/podcast/scala/asymmetric-lenses-scala
Op 24 apr. 2012, om 18:48 heeft Toby Schachman het volgende geschreven: > Benjamin Pierce et al did some work on bidirectional computation. The > premise is to work with bidirectional transformations (which they call > "lenses") rather than (unidirectional) functions. They took a stab at > identifying some primitives, and showing how they would work in some > applications. Of course we can do all the composition tricks with > lenses that we can do with functions :) > http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~harmony/ > > > See also Gerald Sussman's essay Building Robust Systems, > http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/gjs/6.945/readings/robust-systems.pdf > > In particular, he has a section called "Constraints Generalize > Procedures". He gives an example of a system as a constraint solver > (two-way information flow) contrasted with the system as a procedure > (one-way flow). > > > Also I submitted a paper for Onward 2012 which discusses this topic > among other things, > http://totem.cc/onward2012/onward.pdf > > My own interest is in programming interfaces for artists. I am > interested in these "causally agnostic" programming ideas because I > think they could support a more non-linear, improvisational approach > to programming. > > > Toby > > > 2012/4/24 Jarek Rzeszótko <[email protected]>: >> On the other hand, Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to >> repeat it. >> >> Also, please excuse me (especially Julian Leviston) for maybe sounding too >> pessimistic and too offensive, the idea surely is exciting, my point is just >> that it excited me and probably many other persons before Bret Victor or >> Chris Granger did (very interesting) demos of it and what would _really_ >> excite me now is any glimpse of any idea whatsoever on how to make such >> things work in a general enough domain. Maybe they have or will have such >> idea, that would be cool, but until that time I think it's not unreasonable >> to restrain a bit, especially those ideas are relatively easy to realize in >> special domains and very hard to generalize to the wide scope of software >> people create. >> >> I would actually also love to hear from someone more knowledgeable about >> interesting historic attempts at doing such things, e.g. reversible >> computations, because there certainly were some: for one I remember a few >> years ago "back in time debugging" was quite a fashionable topic of talks >> (just google the phrase for a sampling), from a more hardware/physical >> standpoint there is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing etc. >> >> Cheers, >> Jarosław Rzeszótko >> >> >> 2012/4/24 David Nolen <[email protected]> >>> >>> "The best way to predict the future is to invent it" >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 3:50 AM, Jarek Rzeszótko <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> You make it sound a bit like this was a working solution already, while >>>> it seems to be a prototype at best, they are collecting funding right now: >>>> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/306316578/light-table. >>>> >>>> I would love to be proven wrong, but I think given the state of the >>>> project, many people overexcite over it: some of the things proposed aren't >>>> new, just wrapped into a nice modern design (you could try to create a new >>>> "skin" or UI toolkit for some Smalltalk IDE for a similiar effect), while >>>> for the ones that would be new like the real-time evaluation or >>>> visualisation there is too little detail to say whether they are onto >>>> something or not - I am sure many people thought of such things in the >>>> past, >>>> but it is highly questionable to what extent those are actually doable, >>>> especially in an existing language like Clojure or JavaScript. I am not >>>> convinced if dropping 200,000$ at the thing will help with coming up with a >>>> solution if there is no decent set of ideas to begin with. I would >>>> personally be much more enthusiastic if the people behind the project at >>>> least outlined possible approaches they might take, before trying to >>>> collect >>>> money. Currently it sounds like they just plan to "hack" it until it >>>> handles >>>> a reasonable number of special cases, but tools that work only some of the >>>> time are favoured by few. I think we need good theoretical approaches to >>>> problems like this before we can make any progress in how the actual real >>>> tools work like. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jarosław Rzeszótko >>>> >>>> >>>> 2012/4/24 Julian Leviston <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> Thought this is worth a look as a next step after Brett Victor's work >>>>> (http://vimeo.com/36579366) on UI for programmers... >>>>> >>>>> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ibdknox/light-table >>>>> >>>>> We're still not quite "there" yet IMHO, but that's getting towards the >>>>> general direction... tie that in with a tile-script like language, and I >>>>> think we might have something really useful. >>>>> >>>>> Julian >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> fonc mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> fonc mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> fonc mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> fonc mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >> > _______________________________________________ > fonc mailing list > [email protected] > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
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