"ignorant Americans will destroy our planet in short order" was a quote from my German sales engineer. He had related to me the feeling among some of his customers about hardcopy documentation. It was not a political statement of any kind; it was an example of a factor to consider when deciding whether or not to provide printed documentation in addition to PDF.
The relative availability of trees in the US took us off-topic. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Harding [mailto:dhard...@uiuc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 8:22 AM To: John Sgammato; framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Off List No, you decided to make the discussion political when you introduced the following: "proof that we ignorant Americans will destroy our planet in short order." That's incendiary rhetoric, and utterly unnecessary and off-topic. -Dan -----Original Message----- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of John Sgammato Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:44 AM To: Kelly McDaniel; framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Off List As I recall, this was a voyage of several steps. I replied to your innocent question with some anecdotal evidence that PDFs are seen are "green" in Germany, and printed manuals as actively "anti-green". Later, a third responder observed that trees are plentiful in the US, which led to the way off-topic discussion that got us here. IMO, it is somewhat inevitable that a political opinion will be expressed here from time to time, and the solution is to respond to it directly rather than to the list. john -----Original Message----- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McDaniel Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 10:19 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Off List I fear mine may have been the initial post that started the green discussion. For that, please accept my apology. The question I asked, though not directly related to FrameMaker, was more in the venue of how PDFs were used without any green subtext. The point of the issue is that I am attempting to move a PDF-only corporate habit into an online delivery paradigm. To that end, I received many off-list responses from folks I consider to be tops in the field. For that, I am grateful...regards, Kelly. -----Original Message----- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Bodvar Bjorgvinsson Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:20 AM To: Howard Rauch Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Off List Howard, I agree: this is a quality list. :-) This list has never, and in my view, should not be limiting itself to technical solutions regarding FM problems, although this will always be the main issue. There is so much more about FM than that, mainly because of how different FM is to most publishing software. One of the main questions is about when FM is applicable and when not. A subquestion could be about the "greens" as you call it. Discussion of that can be helpful in order to decide how much weight one should put on the single-sourcing capabilities of FM. So I would think it is a valid question on this list. I'd rather keep things the way they have been for the six years I have been on the list than having to try to search through a plethora of lists discussing this or that border product of what would be "allowable" on the FM list. It saves me a lot of time. There have, from time to time, come up issues on the list that are totally not related to FM or the list as a list. These issues have been dealt with by the other framers and sometimes the list manager. Thanks to all Framers on the list throughout the years. :-) And, don't misunderstand me: I think your point qualifies as a valid point for the list to discuss: "What does and should the list stand for?" Bodvar Bjorgvinsson 2009/1/25 Howard Rauch <techtransfer at sbcglobal.net>: > One of the qualities of this list that I have always considered important was that it was devoted to the best ways for using FrameMaker whether for solving problems or evaluating its use. I have subscribed to other lists and discontinued them because so many of the participants were pushing their own personal agendas (I call them "whiners") as opposed to the purpose of the list. > > I have personally noted that a few have been pursuing the green agenda as of late (myself included) whether pro-green or anti-green. The questionnaire about printing user manuals itself promoted neither agenda, but (1) it has promoted a good deal of controversial responses on both sides of the green issue and (2) it was not really a FrameMaker issue. > > My point is this: When any of us submit anything to the FrameMaker list, let's make sure it deals with the use of FrameMaker and not with personal issues. > > Howard Rauch > > Technology Transfer, Inc. > "Linking Creators and Users of Technology" > 933 North 18th Street > Manitowoc WI 54220 > Office: 920-682-1528 > Cell: 920-629-0080 > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________